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Author
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Topic: Wisdom teeth and human evolution.
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Message 1 of 19 (130121)
08-03-2004 7:35 PM
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This is probably related to the thread about humans of the future. I just had my widom teeth surgically removed. My face has swollen into a pumpkin. Anyhow, I visited the local petco today and had a talk with the cashier on my way out. She said that she didn't have any wisdom tooth at all. Does anyone know if this is some kind of mutation in people and is there any potential for it to be some kind of "next step" in the human evolution? There is no advantage whatsoever that I can see that would make those who doesn't have wisdom teeth better adapted than those with wisdom teeth like myself. Any thought on this?
The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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AdminNosy
Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: 11-11-2003
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Message 2 of 19 (130128)
08-03-2004 8:10 PM
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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: 11-12-2002
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I grew six wisdom teeth, Lam. Four at around 20 years old, and two more at 35. In small jaws, where my canines had already been removed to make more room. And I'm not a damn bit wiser for having had six of them. But I've never found out if it's really a mutation thing or a developmental thing. Sounds like time to go Googlin'.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 08-03-2004 7:35 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6045 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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I'm a transitional!
Hey Lam, According to my dentist I'm an extremely rare case - my wisdom teeth are canines. I believe her about my rarity, because whenever I'm in her office she calls everyone in, they look into my mouth and at the x-rays, and state, "I've never seen that before..." Perhaps I will donate my jaw to science as an example of a "transitional" state between large wisdom teeth and none at all... As far as the question of evolution, has anyone heard a proposed selective force for wisdom teeth appearing when they do? I've heard that there purpose is to fill-in for teeth lost earlier in life, however that is potentially wild speculation. In any case, I don't believe lack of wisdom teeth provides a reproductive advantage to modern humans, so I can't come up with a positive selective force resulting in their loss. However, there may no longer be selective pressure to keep them, so their loss may become an example of 'regressive' evolution...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 08-03-2004 7:35 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 08-03-2004 9:07 PM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 5 of 19 (130148)
08-03-2004 9:04 PM
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I think it's all about Asians. That's why they do so good in school until they have them removed and then they just become numbers. 
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: 12-01-2001
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Hi Lam, We are in the process of eliminating the extra teeth associated with larger jaws. There's nothing "neanderthal" about this, but I'm sure you of all people can see the selective advantage of NOT having them!  (Mine are still buried, unlikely to be a problem) Pink Sasquatch is a mutant, pure & simple. An abomination. It's just all wrong. Hey, Sasquatch, have you seen the X-Men? Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 08-03-2004 7:35 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
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mike the wiz
Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: 05-24-2003
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Re: I'm a transitional!
I want my milk teeth back. I'm going to be the first to have a third set of evolving shinies. I long for the day of having a tooth hinged, and messing with it with my tongue. Once I was reading out loud in class, and my tooth popped out onto the book page.
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6045 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 8 of 19 (130160)
08-03-2004 9:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by mark24
08-03-2004 9:07 PM
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Please... look away... I'm hideous! (Actually, when I first was told of my extra set of canines, a friend of mine did make a bunch of Wolverine jokes, mainly because I have large sideburns...) This message has been edited by pink sasquatch, 08-03-2004 08:29 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by mark24, posted 08-03-2004 9:07 PM | | mark24 has not replied |
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 499 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: 03-29-2004
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Pictures please.
The Laminator
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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nator
Member (Idle past 2192 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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quote:
Does anyone know if this is some kind of mutation in people
Yep, sure is. http://focus.hms.harvard.edu/1996/Aug16_1996/Genetics.html I've got one! My lower wisdom teeth never existed.
quote:
and is there any potential for it to be some kind of "next step" in the human evolution?
Doubtful. Too many oral surgeons around to fix things if they get impacted or infected. Also, it is possible and probable for people to reproduce before they get their wisdom teeth. ...or not.
quote:
There is no advantage whatsoever that I can see that would make those who doesn't have wisdom teeth better adapted than those with wisdom teeth like myself. Any thought on this?
Sure there is. In a world without dental care and lots of unrefined food, your grining molars rot out of your head or become ground down. You needed your new teeth to help you eat. Now, they are more of a nuisance to have rather than to not have. I ave never needed any surgery or anything when my upper wisdom teeth came in...lots of room, because I had had two premolars extracted to make room for my canines...two years of braces, narrow palate, etc.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 08-03-2004 7:35 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: 11-12-2002
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Message 11 of 19 (130173)
08-03-2004 10:00 PM
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I knew something rang a bell..... Stedman, et al., Nature 428, 415 - 418 (25 March 2004):
Powerful masticatory muscles are found in most primates, including chimpanzees and gorillas, and were part of a prominent adaptation of Australopithecus and Paranthropus, extinct genera of the family Hominidae. In contrast, masticatory muscles are considerably smaller in both modern and fossil members of Homo. The evolving hominid masticatory apparatustraceable to a Late Miocene, chimpanzee-like morphologyshifted towards a pattern of gracilization nearly simultaneously with accelerated encephalization in early Homo. Here, we show that the gene encoding the predominant myosin heavy chain (MYH) expressed in these muscles was inactivated by a frameshifting mutation after the lineages leading to humans and chimpanzees diverged. Loss of this protein isoform is associated with marked size reductions in individual muscle fibres and entire masticatory muscles. Using the coding sequence for the myosin rod domains as a molecular clock, we estimate that this mutation appeared approximately 2.4 million years ago, predating the appearance of modern human body size and emigration of Homo from Africa. This represents the first proteomic distinction between humans and chimpanzees that can be correlated with a traceable anatomic imprint in the fossil record.
At some point, the human lineage started cooking food and losing jaw muscle (in which order I don't know.) So we already had less need for third molars than our chimp cousins - softer food, and not enough muscle power to run those extra teeth at full grinding power. But our tooth-forming genes didn't get notified about the change. But I still don't know how I got six. Superchimp genes, maybe?
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6045 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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Message 12 of 19 (130187)
08-03-2004 11:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Coragyps
08-03-2004 10:00 PM
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At some point, the human lineage started cooking food and losing jaw muscle... One of my favorite papers of the year - just wanted to the point out that it was quite a drastic change, and a singular event. Human jaw muscle is similar in structure and function to skeletal muscle in those afflicted with muscular dystrophy. The paper also suggests that the muscle weakness resulted in immediate drastic changes in skull structure, allowing room for brain expansion - speculatively the acquired mental strength compensated for the loss of physical strength. Anyway - my main point is that the change described in the paper was not the sort that would have slowly occurred in concert with the development of food preparation... Superchimp? Would you like to join my band of mutants?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Coragyps, posted 08-03-2004 10:00 PM | | Coragyps has not replied |
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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6045 days) Posts: 1567 Joined: 06-10-2004
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'left' for Lam
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 08-03-2004 9:40 PM | | coffee_addict has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by Asgara, posted 08-04-2004 12:12 AM | | pink sasquatch has not replied |
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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2324 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: 05-10-2003
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Re: 'left' for Lam
OOOO hairy man...can I pet it??
Asgara "Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it" http://asgarasworld.bravepages.comhttp://perditionsgate.bravepages.com
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 773 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: 05-30-2004
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I propose that wisdom teeth are the left overs from the antedeluvian generations. Those dudes lived nearly a thousand years! Now certain features of the body (jaws) might continue growing at a slow rate during such a long life span making room for the "wisdom" teeth aside from the fact that they may have just been larger in general. After living 800-900 years, I think most people would be pretty wise and might begin to have a shortage of good teeth, so the extra molars might be necessary...
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