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Author Topic:   Why Evolution is a Fraud
Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 72 (401896)
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


Why Evolution is a Fraud by Tom Sutcliff is a must read for anyone who wants an well-written, non-technical and heavily-researched book on why evolution is a fraud. http://www.evofraud.com is the book's website. I recently finished it and I highly recommend it. I've read most of the books that Sutcliff cites as sources and this is one of the best that I've seen.
The book is also available at Amazon, Barnes and noble and Borders, but the website for the book has the lowest price.
Edited by Evolution Crusher, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by RAZD, posted 05-22-2007 6:31 PM Evolution Crusher has replied
 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2007 6:35 PM Evolution Crusher has replied
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-22-2007 6:35 PM Evolution Crusher has replied
 Message 5 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2007 6:38 PM Evolution Crusher has replied
 Message 12 by subbie, posted 05-22-2007 7:02 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 17 by subbie, posted 05-22-2007 7:09 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 19 by iceage, posted 05-22-2007 7:13 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 29 by nator, posted 05-22-2007 8:26 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2 of 72 (401904)
05-22-2007 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


Gullibles unite
Anyone who says evolution is mathematically impossible is a fraud.
Thank you for proving that "there is a sucker born every minute" is still true.
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:11 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 72 (401906)
05-22-2007 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


Hi, Evolution Crusher.
The write up didn't really impress me enough to want to spend my money on it, no matter how cheap it is. Maybe if I see it sold used I'll spring for it. I bet that most if not all of Sutcliff's claims are taken care of on TalkOrigin's PRATT list. But why don't you take what you think to be Sutcliff's best argument and start a thread on it? The discussion might be instructive for all concerned.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:11 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:53 PM Chiroptera has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4 of 72 (401907)
05-22-2007 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


As you're recommending this book, I assume that you've read it.
What's his best point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:11 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:47 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 5 of 72 (401908)
05-22-2007 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


Having looked at the website it appears that the term "fraud" is better applied to the book itself. It looks like a collection of emotive appeals backed up by lies and smears.
But surprise us. If there are any really good, honest arguments against evolution in the book I'd be interested in seeing them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:11 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:49 PM PaulK has replied

  
Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 72 (401909)
05-22-2007 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Adequate
05-22-2007 6:35 PM


There are a lot of strong points, so it is hard to narrow it down to just one.
Sutcliff cites a recent BBC article where students at a UK university tried to put the famous typing monkey theory into practice. Needless to say, the monkeys did not type anything that even remotely resembled Shakespear as Hardison predicted. They did not even type a legible word in English. However, the monkeys did succeed in using the computers as toilets.
The chapter titled Agendascience really nails the 'why' behind why so many folks buy evolution, even though evolution is scientifically deficient and based more on philosophy than science.
The best point is the whole focus of the book; the author makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own. Aside from a belief in God, Sutcliff does not mention religion at all. His arguments are soundly based on the weight of the evidence, not the consensus of the masses. I thought this was a refreshing approach.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-22-2007 6:35 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Heathen, posted 05-22-2007 7:02 PM Evolution Crusher has replied
 Message 14 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2007 7:03 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 23 by iceage, posted 05-22-2007 7:24 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 24 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-22-2007 7:27 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 27 by Zhimbo, posted 05-22-2007 8:20 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 39 by Zhimbo, posted 05-22-2007 9:09 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 52 by dwise1, posted 05-23-2007 2:56 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 59 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 05-23-2007 5:08 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
 Message 70 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-25-2007 3:37 AM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 72 (401910)
05-22-2007 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by PaulK
05-22-2007 6:38 PM


What lies and smears?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2007 6:38 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2007 7:00 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

  
Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 72 (401911)
05-22-2007 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chiroptera
05-22-2007 6:35 PM


The book is not about creationism or even a replacement for evolution. That's what makes the book so interesting. Sutcliff, in fact, says that evolution should not be banned. I checked the talk origins site link and it focused heavily on the Bible and creationist stuff, which is not where Sutcliff is coming from.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2007 6:35 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 05-22-2007 7:00 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied
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Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 72 (401912)
05-22-2007 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by RAZD
05-22-2007 6:31 PM


Re: Gullibles unite
A closed mind gathers no knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 72 (401913)
05-22-2007 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:53 PM


The page to which I linked is a list of the common arguments used to try to refute the theory of evolution. Most of those arguments are attempts to use science and mathematics to refute the theory of evolution. Sorry if you're not interested in looking at that page very closely -- probably similar to how I feel about looking into Sutcliff's book.
People come in here all the time claiming that they (or their favorite author) has disproven the theory of evolution once and for all. So far, they have all failed. I just don't have enough time to read every single book that someone suggests. They have to convince me that it is worth my while. So far, I see nothing that suggests that Sutcliff isn't just repeating the same tired old arguments that everyone has already seen before.
Like PaulK, I would like to see whether Sutcliff really does have a good argument. I doubt it, but that is where you can make a difference. Start a thread on what you think is Sutcliff's best argument.

Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:53 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 11 of 72 (401914)
05-22-2007 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:49 PM


Oh the link to racism is a smear. I suspect from the sources cited we;ll have the old peppered moth "fraud" story again - which is lies and a smear. And the claim that mathematicians physicists and biochemists have shown to be evolution to be bogus is another lie. So that's a few examples for you to be going on with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:49 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 20 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 7:14 PM PaulK has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1277 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 12 of 72 (401915)
05-22-2007 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:11 PM


More than a little curious....
In a Google search for "Red State Publishing," I found 33 listings, no site for the company itself, and almost every listing was someone or other talking about this book.
This site, a "review"* of the book, lists the evofraud website as the webite for Red State Publishing.
Be honest now. You're the author and you're just looking for a little free pub, right?
_____________________
* In particular, I love this bit from the "review:"
quote:
Heavily researched, with all 44 sources listed on the book’s Web site at http://www.evofraud.com, Sutcliff spent five years researching and writing the eight-chapter book
Wow! In five years, he found 44 whole sources! That is impressive. *chortling*

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Heathen
Member (Idle past 1305 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 13 of 72 (401916)
05-22-2007 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:47 PM


evolutioncrusher writes:
Sutcliff cites a recent BBC article where students at a UK university tried to put the famous typing monkey theory into practice. Needless to say, the monkeys did not type anything that even remotely resembled Shakespear as Hardison predicted. They did not even type a legible word in English. However, the monkeys did succeed in using the computers as toilets.
Uhmmm... you are aware that this has nothing to do with the theory of evolution aren't you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:47 PM Evolution Crusher has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 7:09 PM Heathen has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 14 of 72 (401917)
05-22-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Evolution Crusher
05-22-2007 6:47 PM


quote:
Sutcliff cites a recent BBC article where students at a UK university tried to put the famous typing monkey theory into practice. Needless to say, the monkeys did not type anything that even remotely resembled Shakespear as Hardison predicted. They did not even type a legible word in English. However, the monkeys did succeed in using the computers as toilets.
So the book's a parody of antievolution arguments. If the strongest one you can find is am obvious joke then I think we can all have a good laugh and sadly shake our heads over the difficulty of telling the parody from the reality.
quote:
The chapter titled Agendascience really nails the 'why' behind why so many folks buy evolution, even though evolution is scientifically deficient and based more on philosophy than science.
The best point is the whole focus of the book; the author makes the unique point of breaking the tired old 'science versus religion' stalemate by forcing evolution to stand (or fall) on its own. Aside from a belief in God, Sutcliff does not mention religion at all. His arguments are soundly based on the weight of the evidence, not the consensus of the masses. I thought this was a refreshing approach.
This is just more jokes, isn't it ? It's certainly not true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Evolution Crusher, posted 05-22-2007 6:47 PM Evolution Crusher has not replied

  
Evolution Crusher
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 72 (401918)
05-22-2007 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
05-22-2007 7:00 PM


I don't know about the google search, but the website was provided in the earlier e-mail. No (LOL!) I did not write the book; I read a lot and was impressed by this approach.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 05-22-2007 7:00 PM PaulK has not replied

  
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