Some Historical Facts:

1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January.....In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ....FDR...led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked u s. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.3. In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick killing a woman.Wait, there's more.......................Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living. This is a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of our military.JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13Senator Howard Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps. I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me . as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their Dads didn't hold a job. You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty- that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible.I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA {Fixed a typo in the topic title. - Adminnemooseus}This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 06-24-2005 02:08 PM

Here's another "historyical fact"; in 1846 Elias Howe patented the lock-stich sewing machine and revolutionized the garment industry.That has about as much relevance to opposition to the Iraq war - a position of increasing support and popularity among both sides of the political aisle - as anything in your post.

You know, it's really sad when someone does a cut and paste that is not only OLD but totally wrong. When they then put in a thread called " Some Historyical{sic} Facts:"it's down right embarrassing. Germany declared war on the US. North Korea invaded a US ally and the US was part of a UN Police Action. JFK didn't start the Vietnam involvement, that began under Eisenhower when we supported the French in French Indochina.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This is a nice list of facts. Just had a couple of questions. Since Japan and Germany were allies during the war how would it have been possible for FDR (or anyone for that matter) to have engaged one and not the other? Wasn't Kennedy trying to "liberate" Vietnam from the communists? Wasn't Clinton being a good Christian by trying to stop a genocide? Well, I would assume that here you are referring to Afghanistan and Iraq. I can't remember the date can you remind me when Iraq attacked us? Since the war is over does this mean you and my brother can come home now?

Nice OP Tal. It should generate a few sparks here at the Liberal Forum. I especially like these:"The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.""We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records."

Why did we invade if we had no evidence of WMD?Didn't the adminstration tell us there was evidence? I seem to remember that they did. So, is it that they were lying then, or that you're lying now?

How dare you compare this business in Iraq with World War II.Do you know the threat that Germany--not to mention Japan--presented?You are comparing the German army of WWII with the Iraqi army?This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-23-2005 10:05 PM

We never should have gone to Iraq or Vietnam.
But Iraq is obvious.Vietnam and Korea are victims of the Red Scare.But you can imagine how jumpy we were after WWII. So one can understand Korea.And remember we were very afraid of the Soviet Union--thus Vietnam.But Iraq? What great power did they have behind them? There was none.So the comparisons do not hold.We went to Iraq because of 9-11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.But we didn't think Afghanistan was enough, so we looked around and picked out Iraq. We could have picked out many others, but the terrain in Iraq was good for our sort of army. It helped our tanks.Now this is not a good reason to go to war with a particular country--because the terrain was good. No. not good. I will grant you that Hussain was an irritant, and it was costing us money to maintain the zone that they were allowed to fly in. But still, this is not a good enough reason to go to war.

simply sad and embarrassing because it shows how little the authors know about history. You'd think they might at the least get recent history straight. It's really sad to think there are Americans who know so little about their own history.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Here is an entire thread on the subject. It's one of several here at EvC, knock yourself out with it. Message 1

Well, what I would like to know is what their program is.Tell me straight out what you want. Don't give me these comparisons to World War II for God's sake.Just tell me what you want, Tal, and I will respond.Tell me seriously.1. Do you want me to support our government, no matter what they do? My country right or wrong?2. Is that what our founding fathers did? After all, their government was England. Is that what you want?3. Do you want me to say that we never make a mistake as a country?

counting iraqi's?as a gesture to show those in our armed forces that we do not forget them, here are the names of those killed while serving their country (our country) during the month of january 2005.

quote:

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1. Lance Cpl. Jason C. Redifer, 19, of Stuarts Draft, Va., died as a result of hostile action in Babil Province, Iraq.
2. Lance Cpl. Harry R. Swain IV, 21, of Cumberland, N.J., died as a result of hostile action in Babil Province, Iraq.
3. Cpl. Christopher E. Zimny, 27, of Cook, Ill., died as a result of hostile action in Babil Province, Iraq.
   ​
   Jan. 30, 2005
4. Lance Cpl. Nazario Serrano, 20, of Irving, Texas, died as a result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
5. Pfc. James H. Miller IV, 22, of Cincinnati, Ohio, died in Ramadi, Iraq, from injuries sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his vehicle.
   ​
   Jan. 29, 2005
6. Lt. Cmdr Keith E. Taylor, 47, of Irvine, Calif., died in a rocket attack on the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.
   Lt. Cmdr. Edward E. Jack, 51, of Detroit, Mich., died of a non-combat related incident aboard the USS Bonhomme Richard.
7. Sgt. Lindsey T. James, 23, of Urbana, Mo., died in Baghdad, Iraq, from injuries sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his dismounted patrol.
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   Jan. 28, 2005
   Sgt. Andrew K. Farrar Jr., 31, of Weymouth, Mass., died due to a non-hostile related incident in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
   Sgt. 1st Class Mickey E. Zaun, 27, of Brooklyn Park, Minn., died in Mosul, Iraq, from injuries sustained in a collision between two armored vehicles.
   Capt. Orlando A. Bonilla, 27, of Killeen, Texas, died in Baghdad, Iraq, in a helicopter accident.
   Chief Warrant Officer Charles S. Jones, 34, of Lawtey, Fla., died in Baghdad, Iraq, in a helicopter accident.
   Pfc. Stephen A. Castellano, 21, of Long Beach, Calif., died in Mosul, Iraq, from a non-combat related injury.
8. Staff Sgt. Jonathan R. Reed, 25, of Opelousas, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck a nearby vehicle.
9. Spc. Michael S. Evans II, 22, Marrero, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck a nearby vehicle.
10. Spc. Christopher J. Ramsey, 20, of Batchelor, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck a nearby vehicle.
11. Spc. Lyle W. Rymer II, 24, of Fort Smith, Ark., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when he was shot by enemy forces.
12. Staff Sgt. Joseph E.Rodriguez, 25 of Las Cruces, N.M., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his armored vehicle.
    ​
    Jan. 27, 2005
13. Cpl. Jonathan S. Beatty, 22, of Streator, Ill., died as a result of hostile action in Babil Province, Iraq.
    Pfc. Kevin M. Luna, 26, of Oxnard, Calif., died in Muqdadiyah, Iraq, from non-combat related injuries.
    ​
    Jan. 26, 2005
    Cpl. Timothy A. Knight, 22, of Brooklyn, Ohio, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Staff Sgt. Brian D. Bland, 26, of Weston, Wyo., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Sgt. Michael W. Finke Jr., 28, of Huron, Ohio, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    1st Lt. Travis J. Fuller, 26, of Granville, Mass., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Timothy M. Gibson, 23, of Hillsborough, N.H., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Richard A. Gilbert Jr., 26, of Montgomery, Ohio, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Kyle J. Grimes, 21, of Northampton, Pa., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Tony L. Hernandez, 22, of Canyon Lake, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Nathaniel K. Moore, 22, of Champaign, Ill., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Gael Saintvil, 24, of Orange, Fla., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Nathan A. Schubert, 22, of Cherokee, Iowa, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Michael L. Starr Jr., 21, of Baltimore, Md., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Stephen P. Johnson, 24, of Covina, Calif., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Fred L. Maciel, 20, of Spring, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Spc. Taylor J. Burk, 21, of Amarillo, Texas, died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his vehicle.
    Capt. Paul C. Alaniz, 32, of Corpus Christi, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Jonathan E. Etterling, 22, of Wheelersburg, Ohio, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Capt. Lyle L. Gordon, 30, of Midlothian, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Brian C. Hopper, 21, of Wynne, Ark., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Saeed Jafarkhani-Torshizi Jr., 24, of Fort Worth, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Sean P. Kelly, 23, of Gloucester, N.J., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Staff Sgt. Dexter S. Kimble, 30, of Houston, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Allan Klein, 34, of Clinton Township, Mich., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. James L. Moore, 24, of Roseburg, Ore., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Mourad Ragimov, 20, of San Diego, Calif., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Rhonald D. Rairdan, 20, of San Antonio, Texas, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Hector Ramos, 20, of Aurora, Ill., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Darrell J. Schumann, 25, of Hampton, Va., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    1st Lt. Dustin M. Shumney, 30, of Vallejo, Calif., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Cpl. Matthew R. Smith, 24, of West Valley, Utah, died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    Lance Cpl. Joseph B. Spence, 24, of Scotts Valley, Calif., died when the CH-53E helicopter he was in crashed near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
14. Cpl. Jonathan W. Bowling, 23, of Patrick, Va., died of wounds received as result of enemy action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
15. Lance Cpl. Karl R. Linn, 20, of Chesterfield, Va., died of wounds received as result of enemy action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
16. Cpl. Christopher L. Weaver, 24, of Fredericksburg, Va., died as a result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
17. Sgt. William S. Kinzer Jr., 27, of Hendersonville, N.C., died in Ad Duluiyah, Iraq, from injuries sustained when a rocket-propelled grenade hit his patrol.
18. Sgt. Jesse W. Strong, 24, of Irasburg, Vt., died as a result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
    Petty Officer 3rd Class John D. House, 28, of Ventura, Calif., died in a helicopter crash near Ar Rutbah, Iraq.
    ​
    Jan. 24, 2005
    Staff Sgt. Joseph W. Stevens, 26, of Sacramento, Calif., died in Mohammed Sacran, Iraq, when his Bradley Fighting Vehicle overturned.
    Sgt. Michael C. Carlson, 22, of St. Paul, Minn., died in Mohammed Sacran, Iraq, when his Bradley Fighting Vehicle overturned.
    Sgt. Javier Marin Jr., 29, of Mission, Texas, died in Mohammed Sacran, Iraq, when his Bradley Fighting Vehicle overturned.
    Spc. Viktar V. Yolkin, 24, of Spring Branch, Texas, died in Mohammed Sacran, Iraq, when his Bradley Fighting Vehicle overturned.
    Pfc. Jesus A. Leon-Perez, 20, of Houston, Texas, died in Mohammed Sacran, Iraq, when his Bradley Fighting Vehicle overturned.
19. Sgt. Brett D. Swank, of Northumberland, Pa., died in Baghdad, Iraq, from injuries sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his position.
    Sgt. Leonard W. Adams, 42, of Mooresville, N.C., died in Camp Bucca, Iraq, of non-combat related injuries.
    ​
    Jan. 23, 2005
    Staff Sgt. Jose C. Rangel, 43, of Saratoga, Calif., died in Camp Arifjan, Kuwait, of non-combat related injuries.
    ​
    Jan. 22, 2005
20. 1st Lt. Nainoa K. Hoe, 27, of Hawaii, died in Mosul, Iraq, of wounds received when he was attacked by enemy forces using small arms fire.
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    Jan. 21, 2005
    Capt. Joe F. Lusk II, 25, of Reedley, Calif., died in Camp Buehring, Kuwait, of non-combat related injuries.
21. Sgt. Kyle W. Childress, 29, of Terre Haute, Ind., died in Balad, Iraq, of wounds received in Ad Duluiyah, Iraq, when his unit was attacked by enemy forces using small arms fire.
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    Jan. 18, 2005
22. Capt. Christopher J. Sullivan, 29, of Princeton, Mass., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device detonated near his parked vehicle.
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    Jan. 17, 2005
23. Pfc. Jesus Fonseca, 19, of Marietta, Ga., died in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device detonated near his position.
24. Staff Sgt. Thomas E. Vitagliano, 33, of New Haven, Conn., died in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device detonated near his position.
25. Pfc. George R. Geer, 27, of Cortez, Colo., died in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, when a vehicle-borne improvised explosive device detonated near his position.
    Pfc. Francis C. Obaji, 21, of Queens Village, N.Y., died in the 86th Combat Support Hospital in Baghdad, Iraq, after he was involved in a motor vehicle accident Jan. 16 in Baghdad, Iraq.
    ​
    Jan. 16, 2005
    Spc. Alain L. Kamolvathin, 21, of Blairstown, N.J., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when he was involved in a motor vehicle accident.
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    Jan. 15, 2005
26. Sgt. Jayton D. Patterson, 26, of Sedley, Va., died as result of hostile action in Babil Province, Iraq.
    Sgt. Nathaniel T. Swindell, 24, of Bronx, N.Y., died in Mosul, Iraq, from a non-combat related injury.
    ​
    Jan. 14, 2005
    Cpl. Paul C. Holter III, 21, of Corpus Christi, Texas, died due to a non-combat related incident at Camp Ramadi, Iraq.
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    Jan. 13, 2005
27. Lance Cpl. Matthew W. Holloway, 21, of Fulton, Texas, died from injuries received as a result of enemy action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
28. Lance Cpl. Juan R. Rodriguez Velasco, 23, of El Cenizo, Texas, died from injuries received as a result of enemy action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
29. Sgt. 1st Class Brian A. Mack, 36, of Phoenix, died in Mosul, Iraq, when his military vehicle was hit by an improvised explosive device.
    Pfc. Gunnar D. Becker, 19, of Forestburg, S.D., died in Mosul, Iraq, of non-combat related injuries.
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    Jan. 11, 2005
30. Spc. Michael J. Smith, 24, of Media, Pa., died in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, when his military vehicle was hit by a rocket propelled grenade.
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    Jan. 10, 2005
31. Staff Sgt. William F. Manuel, 34, of Kinder, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device hit his military vehicle.
32. Sgt. Robert W. Sweeney III, 22, of Pineville, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device hit his military vehicle.
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    Jan. 9, 2005
33. Cpl. Joseph E. Fite, 23, of Round Rock, Texas, died as a result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
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    Jan. 8, 2005
34. Spc. Dwayne J. McFarlane Jr., 20, of Cass Lake, Minn., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when his dismounted patrol was hit by an improvised explosive device.
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    Jan. 7, 2005
    Pfc. Daniel F. Guastaferro, 27, of Las Vegas, died in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, when his military vehicle left the road and went into a canal.
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    Jan. 6, 2005
35. Lance Cpl. Julio C. Cisneros Alvarez, 22, of Pharr, Texas, died as result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
36. Sgt. Zachariah S. Davis, 25, of Twentynine Palms, Calif., died as result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
37. Pfc. Kenneth G. Vonronn, 20, of Bloomingburg, N.Y., died in Baghdad, Iraq, with six of his fellow soldiers when an improvised explosive device struck their Bradley fighting vehicle.
38. Sgt. 1st Class Kurt J. Comeaux, 34, of Raceland, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his Bradley fighting vehicle.
39. Sgt. Christopher J. Babin, 27, of Houma, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his Bradley fighting vehicle.
40. Spc. Bradley J. Bergeron, 25, of Houma, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his Bradley fighting vehicle.
41. Spc. Huey P. L. Fassbender, 24, of LaPlace, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his Bradley fighting vehicle.
42. Spc. Armand L. Frickey, 20, of Houma, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his Bradley fighting vehicle.
43. Spc. Warren A. Murphy, 29, of Marrero, La., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device struck his Bradley fighting vehicle.
    ​
    Jan. 4, 2005
44. Pfc. Curtis L. Wooten III, 20, of Spanaway, Wash., died in Balad, Iraq, when an improvised explosive device detonated near his military vehicle.
45. Sgt. Bennie J. Washington, 25, of Atlanta, died in Brooke Army Medical Center, San Antonio, of injuries sustained Oct. 14 in Ar Ramadi, Iraq, when his military vehicle was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade.
46. Spc. Jimmy D. Buie, 44, of Floral, Ark., died in Taji, Iraq, when an improvised explosive devise detonated near their military vehicle.
47. Spc. Jeremy W. McHalffey, 28, of Mabelvale, Ark., died in Taji, Iraq, when an improvised explosive devise detonated near their military vehicle.
48. Spc. Joshua S. Marcum, 33, of Evening Shade, Ark., died in Taji, Iraq, when an improvised explosive devise detonated near their military vehicle.
49. Pvt. Cory R. Depew, 21, of Beech Grove, Ind., died in Mosul, Iraq, when his Stryker military vehicle was struck by a rocket-propelled grenade.
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    Jan. 3, 2005
50. Sgt. Thomas E. Houser, 22, of Council Bluffs, Iowa, died as result of enemy action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.
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    Jan. 1, 2005
51. Spc. Jeff LeBrun, 21, from Buffalo, N.Y., died in Baghdad, Iraq, when his military vehicle was struck by an improvised explosive device.
52. Lance Cpl. Brian P. Parrello, 19, of West Milford, N.J., died as result of hostile action in Al Anbar Province, Iraq.

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(abcnews)now, i count 52 combat related injuries. that means whoever you cited has forgotten 13 of your brothers in arms. how would you feel if they forgot you, or a friend of yours? all told, i think there are close to a hundred deaths up there.This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 06-24-2005 12:13 AM

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אָרַח

Yeah but it was only 52.

Come on Arach. If they can't their facts right about WWII, Korea or Vietnam, why would you expect them to be able to learn NEW stuff?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Only have time for one quibble: Oddly enough, the Detroit Free Press was the first link brought up by a search. *shrugs*Anyway, it appears that this number (and different sources are giving different numbers, but it appears to be in the 40s-50s range) only includes American soldiers who died in combat related killings.And, since you're claiming that Detroit is about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq, shouldn’t non-combat-related killings also be included in the statistic, anyway?{Added by edit: Oops, looks like arachnophilia beat me to it while I was searching for numbers on Iraqi casualties.}This message has been edited by Morte, 06-24-2005 12:32 AM