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Author Topic:   The Christian view of life
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 14 (322422)
06-16-2006 9:24 PM


My idea is that one finds a more nihilistic description of the human condition in many religious works (I'm speaking specifically of Christian works) than in most books by "freethinkers," as they used to be called. To see this, all we have to do is take out the religious parts. What's left over are some very correct nihilistic comments.
This is from William Law's A Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life (1728): http://www.worldinvisible.com/.../law/seriouscall/scch17.htm
think how soon the world will disregard you and have no more thought or concern about you than about the poorest animal that died in a ditch. Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction and set up a monument to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it.
or from Pascal's Pensees:
"Thus passes away all man's life. Men seek rest in a struggle against difficulties; and when they have conquered these, rest becomes insufferable."
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Here's a similar idea from Samuel Johnson's Rasselas. The thesis of this book is that human happiness is impossible. It's not obviously religious, but anyone familiar with Johnson knows what he's getting at: forget happiness: do your religious duty. It's about this rich prince that travels around the world trying to find out what mode of life will make him happy. This passage is about a Pyramid in Egypt:
"It seems to have been erected only in compliance with that hunger of imagination which preys incessantly upon life, and must always be appeased by some employment. Those who have already all that they can enjoy, must enlarge their desires. He that has buiilt for use, till use is supplied, must begin to build for vanity, and extend his plan to the utmost power of human performance, that he may not be soon reduced to form another wish. I consider this mighty structure as a monument of the insufficiency of human enjoyments. A king, whose power is unlimited, and whose treasures surmount all real and imaginary wants, is compelled to solace, by the erection of a pyramid, the satiety of dominion and tastelessness of pleasures, and to amuse the tediousness of declining life, by seeing thousands laboring without end, and one stone, for no purpose, laid upon another."
http://www.worldwideschool.org/...nceofAbyssinia/chap32.html
Moving along in time, we find T. S. Eliot in the 1940s writing in his deeply Christian (and modernist) poem Four Quartets,
Or as, when an underground train, in the tube, stops too long between stations,
And the conversation rises and slowly fades into silence
And you see behind every face the mental emptiness deepen
Leaving only the growing terror of nothing to think about . . .
http://www.tristan.icom43.net/quartets/coker.html
Being terrified by "nothing to think about" is not only quite amusing; it is also a very accurate depiction of the psychological condition of humans, who are purpose-oriented, being lost in a purposeless world. Here we have the tedium vitae, the "vacuity" of life, to use Samuel Johnson's term.
I would conclude, therefore, the following: the depiction of the human condition as described by Christian writers (if we omit references to God) has a nihilistic flavor to it.
There might be two issues here:
1. Is the traditional Christian view of life as depicted above?
2. Ought it to be the view of life for a Christian?
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 3 by AdminNWR, posted 06-17-2006 10:52 AM robinrohan has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 14 (322524)
06-17-2006 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
06-16-2006 9:24 PM


I added some more.

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 Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 06-16-2006 9:24 PM robinrohan has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 14 (322526)
06-17-2006 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by robinrohan
06-16-2006 9:24 PM


Unusual PNT
This is a rather unusual PNT. My initial reaction was to question its appropriateness for evcforum. However, you usually have interesting ideas to contribute, so I will ignore that initial reaction.
This doesn't seem to be a debate topic. So if this is going to work at all, then you need to wear your hat as teacher of English, and lead the discussion along. You can reply to this message, indicating whether you agree to such an approach. It might require that you provide periodic examples, and then open the discussion on each example indicating why it fits with your thesis.
I found copies of Pensees on line (English translation). I suggest you edit the OP, and include a link to one of these. Maybe a google search will turn up a copy of the other work you mentioned. It can only help the discussion if the source material is available.
My tentative plan will be to promote this to the Coffee House. For now, I await your response and any further comments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by robinrohan, posted 06-16-2006 9:24 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 11:09 AM AdminNWR has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 14 (322528)
06-17-2006 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by AdminNWR
06-17-2006 10:52 AM


Re: Unusual PNT
I did not mean for the topic to be specialized. I don't think it necessary that a poster should take the trouble to study the original texts. The passages I quoted are deliberately taken out of context. The one by Law, for example, is from a chapter about the necessity of being unworldly.
Of course, I have just assumed that the views of life as revealed in the excerpts are accurate depictions of the human condition.
But you're right. The topic doesn't seem to be very discussable. It's interesting to me, but probably not of general interest.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by AdminNWR, posted 06-17-2006 11:13 AM robinrohan has replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 14 (322530)
06-17-2006 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by robinrohan
06-17-2006 11:09 AM


Re: Unusual PNT
I don't think it necessary that a poster should take the trouble to study the original texts.
Providing links does not require that people study the original. It just makes it easier if they decide to take a look.
But you're right. The topic doesn't seem to be very discussable. It's interesting to me, but probably not of general interest.
Should I take this as a withdrawal of the proposal?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 11:09 AM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 12:16 PM AdminNWR has replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 14 (322542)
06-17-2006 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by AdminNWR
06-17-2006 11:13 AM


nwr
I think I can change it to make the topic viable. It would be a faith and belief topic for Christians. The issue is this: assuming the above passages represent the traditional Christian view of life, ought it to do so for Christians? (as opposed, say, to the hearts-and-flowers approach or the fiesta concept).
What do you think?
Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

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 Message 5 by AdminNWR, posted 06-17-2006 11:13 AM AdminNWR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by AdminNWR, posted 06-17-2006 12:35 PM robinrohan has replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 14 (322549)
06-17-2006 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by robinrohan
06-17-2006 12:16 PM


We can but try
I'm willing to give it a try. But I would still like to see a link for Pensees, and for the other reference (if available). And you might still need to help to topic along from time to time, much as jar did with his grand canyon topic.
If that's okay with you, then I can promote the topic to Faith and Belief. Reply to this to indicate your readiness.

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 Message 6 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 12:16 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 14 (322562)
06-17-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AdminNWR
06-17-2006 12:35 PM


Re: We can but try
I forgot how to do a link. 3 of the texts are on-line. Maybe even 4 quartets. I'll see.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 12:54 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 14 (322563)
06-17-2006 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by robinrohan
06-17-2006 12:53 PM


Re: We can but try
Also, I need to do some re-wording.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 12:53 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by AdminNWR, posted 06-17-2006 1:00 PM robinrohan has replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 14 (322568)
06-17-2006 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by robinrohan
06-17-2006 12:54 PM


Re: We can but try
Also, I need to do some re-wording.
Okay. Reply to this message when you are ready to go.

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 Message 9 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 12:54 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 1:04 PM AdminNWR has not replied
 Message 13 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 1:24 PM AdminNWR has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 14 (322569)
06-17-2006 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AdminNWR
06-17-2006 1:00 PM


Re: We can but try
How do I do a link?

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 14 (322571)
06-17-2006 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by robinrohan
06-17-2006 1:04 PM


Re: We can but try
never mind. I see.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by robinrohan, posted 06-17-2006 1:04 PM robinrohan has not replied

robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 14 (322572)
06-17-2006 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AdminNWR
06-17-2006 1:00 PM


nwr
OK, it's ready.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by AdminNWR, posted 06-17-2006 1:00 PM AdminNWR has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 14 (322575)
06-17-2006 1:32 PM


Topic promoted
Promoted to The Christian view of life.
Closing this copy.

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