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Author Topic:   Pro-Brownback, Anti-Heliocentrism???
Zhimbo
Member (Idle past 4149 days)
Posts: 571
From: New Hampshire, USA
Joined: 07-28-2001


Message 1 of 16 (401768)
05-22-2007 12:59 AM


On Blogs 4 Brownback, I read this.

"Heliocentrism is an Atheist Doctrine".

It reads like some Grade A snark to me, yet it seems to be a legitimate, established, pro-Brownback blog. I mean, as wingnutty as you would expect an established pro-Brownback blog to be, but sincere.

If it's snark or parody, it's an astonishing achievement of planning and execution.


Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18415
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 2 of 16 (401802)
05-22-2007 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zhimbo
05-22-2007 12:59 AM


I read through the first 20 or 30 comments and found some relevancy to our own debate here. Sisyphus is having no problem holding his own against a host of scoffers and mockers, by which I mean any fellow geocentrists would very likely see Sisyphus as having triumphed over them. If debate about geocentrism can be so equivocal, we should not be surprised that in evolution debates the results are even more so.

--Percy


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Tusko
Member
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 3 of 16 (401820)
05-22-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zhimbo
05-22-2007 12:59 AM


Parody
I haven't read it all yet, but I just saw his comment in response to the post:

“Equatorial radius: 6,378.137 km
Polar radius: 6,356.752 km

You’ll notice the equatorial radius is larger, thus the “bulge”. Try learning something about a subject before popping off about it.”

He replies:

114.
I notice you use thhe metric system. That automatically makes your calculations suspect. The metric system is pure evil.

Comment by Sisyphus — May 19, 2007 @ 7:46 pm

I'm calling him out on that. It HAS to be a parody.

Edited by Tusko, : No reason given.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 16456
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 4 of 16 (401827)
05-22-2007 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Tusko
05-22-2007 10:58 AM


Re: Parody
I've been visiting Fundies Say the Darndest Things! quite a bit lately, and I'm convinced that there is no conceivable idiocy that isn't sincerely believed by somebody.


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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tusko
Member
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 5 of 16 (401834)
05-22-2007 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
05-22-2007 11:13 AM


Re: Parody
Wow, they're pretty good. I wonder though - how difficult would it be to smuggle a quote of your own devising onto the website? Probably not that hard. I notice the one about the mother of the gay son who subsequently killed himself had only been a member for a few posts - presumably just to relate the story. Although this could be completely genuine, it also might indicate a quick 'smash and grab' effort from someone looking for meat for fstdt.

I'm pretty confident that this guy is a parody merchant however. There are several priceless turns of phrase in the comments that I don't think could be the product of anything but a satirist. Whether genuine or not though, the site acts as a pretty frightning expose of the power of the demagogue. As Percy mentioned above, if you squint at the posts, the writer's ultra assured style and delivery often makes it look as though they are winning the argument (disregarding the actual argument itself that is).


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ringo
Member
Posts: 16456
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 6 of 16 (401835)
05-22-2007 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Tusko
05-22-2007 12:02 PM


Re: Parody
Tusko writes:

There are several priceless turns of phrase in the comments that I don't think could be the product of anything but a satirist.

It's true that idiots are seldom very clever. :)


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19839
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 7 of 16 (401837)
05-22-2007 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Tusko
05-22-2007 10:58 AM


Re: Parody or Delusion
I have to agree with Ringo and Percy. This argument includes strawman representations of the current science (no one to my knowledge teaches that the sun is the center of the universe) and it has a link to fixedearth.com -- so it could easily be someone connected with that website.

One thing that is clear after reading many years of posts on sites like this one is that there a large number of deluded people. People who really believe insane things.

Enjoy.


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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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Tusko
Member
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 8 of 16 (401838)
05-22-2007 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by ringo
05-22-2007 12:11 PM


Re: Parody
The metric system being evil, surely is an indication that the person isn't being entirely serious.

But there is also a rather uncharacteristic haziness from Sisyphus when the conversation turns to the question that the earth should also be considered flat if the bible is to be held in any esteem. In comment 95:

“Doesn’t the bible imply that the world is flat too (i.e. 4 corners)? Is this also disputed by “believers”?”

If I could see some links about this, I promise I’ll approach them with an open mind.

This seems a little too circumlocutionary for me... rather like they are playing naieve to make some time.

Fun though!


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Tusko
Member
Posts: 605
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 9 of 16 (401840)
05-22-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
05-22-2007 12:23 PM


Re: Parody or Delusion
Wow. Temporarily rendered speechless.

ABE: [speech]By www.fixedearth.com that is[/speech]

Edited by Tusko, : No reason given.


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1429 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 10 of 16 (401846)
05-22-2007 1:08 PM


I just read through it.

While I am still undecided as to whether this is a spoof or not, and I've seen some pretty convincing spoofs in my life, Sisyphus does have a point in the following.

quote:
“I think NASA has proven that the earth moves through space. Intrasolar probes have to retarget to the new location of Terra when they’re sending information back.”

That’s a situation in which it’s mathematically convenient to consider the Earth as moving. But objects only move relative to other objects. You can easily allow that one object (the Earth) holds still, in accordance with Scripture and the empirical evidence of those of us on Earth. That NASA has decided to view the Earth as moving was their moral and mathematical decision, not an Absolute Fact.


Ok, bare with me for a moment. Just imagine the Earth being truly fixed while the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth. Stop it. Just suspend your disbelief for a second. Also, ignore the fact that there is nothing that we know of that would hold Earth in a fixed position. Just imagine that the Earth is truly fixed with everything else moving around it.

The result would be just the same as if the Earth is orbiting the sun.

I think this guy has a point... if you ignore everything we know about physics.

Added by edit.

By the way, this is my favorite one.

quote:
I am sorry, Sisyphus, but you are wrong. The Earth revolves around the Sun. Our Sun revolves around the center of our solar system. Our solar system is moving through space.

Please visit our Vatican Website for clarification on valid science here:
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/index.htm

Peace be with you, my son.
- The Pope

Comment by The Pope — May 21, 2007 @ 2:42 pm


Edited by Tazmanian Devil, : No reason given.



We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.

Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19839
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 11 of 16 (401855)
05-22-2007 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Taz
05-22-2007 1:08 PM


framed by the references - test your relatives?
Ok, bare with me for a moment. Just imagine the Earth being truly fixed while the rest of the universe revolves around the Earth. Stop it. Just suspend your disbelief for a second. Also, ignore the fact that there is nothing that we know of that would hold Earth in a fixed position. Just imagine that the Earth is truly fixed with everything else moving around it.

The result would be just the same as if the Earth is orbiting the sun.

Let me take my shirt of first, then I'll bear with you ... ;)

You can also do this with the moon and every speck of dust that is in space anywhere. Even any subatomic particle. All you end up with is more math to figure things out for what you want to accomplish.

This does not prove that any one frame of reference is correct or incorrect.

In each case what we are doing mathematically is taking the frame of reference for a universe where the earth spins in orbit around the center of the solar system (of which the sun is the dominant mass) which spins in orbit around the center of the galaxy which meanders through time and space relative to the mass distribution\gravity distribution of the rest of the universe -- and transform that to any frame of reference of our choosing.

Thus in every case the math involves the earth spinning in orbit around the sun. In terms of theory, the more parsimonious concept that still explains all the data is preferred, however this does not mean that it is necessarily correct or proved.

Where we can suggest an experiment to determine what frame of reference is correct we need to think outside the Newtonian box: we send a probe directly to the earth north (or south .. or both) pole; it has a nuclear clock, gyroscope and star observation capability so that it keeps oriented to stay stationary or match the spin of the earth (whichever is "true"). As it leaves the solar neighborhood the time frame will change (less mass around it) and the effect we know as dark matter\energy will raise it's head.

Prediction: that the spin of the universe relative to the earth will be different on the probe than on earth or the radioactive clock will need a different calibration than an identical one on earth.

We can also send an identical probe to ascend directly over the solar north (or south ... or both) pole, and use this to compare the amount of energy needed to maintain the probes in their relative positions and orientations.

Prediction: to "solar north" probe will need much less energy to maintain relative position and orientation than the "earth north" probe.

Enjoy.


Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 05-22-2007 1:08 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1780 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 12 of 16 (401863)
05-22-2007 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ringo
05-22-2007 11:13 AM


Re: Parody
Hey Ringo, you owe me some life back :mad:

from your site, I found teens-4-christ often quoted so have just wasted the past hour there...

Check out this whole thread on music :eek:

Edited by cavediver, : corrected link


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1429 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 16 (401867)
05-22-2007 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
05-22-2007 2:17 PM


Re: framed by the references - test your relatives?
RAZD, didn't I say to ignore everything we know about physics? The author of that blog did exactly that, and because of it the fixed Earth makes perfect sense. Remember that Einsteinian and Newtonian physics are wrong and that the metric system is pure evil. Your proposed experiments use all of these.

Enjoy :D



We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.

Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 05-22-2007 2:17 PM RAZD has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1429 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 14 of 16 (401868)
05-22-2007 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by cavediver
05-22-2007 3:12 PM


Re: Parody
Once upon a time I spent a couple hours reading through the teens 4 christ crap. It's places like that that makes me glad I'm not a monkey... I mean christian.



We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.

Disclaimer:

Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.

He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by cavediver, posted 05-22-2007 3:12 PM cavediver has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5387
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 15 of 16 (401872)
05-22-2007 3:33 PM


"Who's Jon Swift?" coming from someone who knows who Sisyphus was is plenty to convince me it's satire. I'd like to shake the satirist's hand, though. Very good stuff.
    
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