Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 80 (8960 total)
94 online now:
dwise1, LamarkNewAge, PaulK, Tangle, Thugpreacha (AdminPhat) (5 members, 89 visitors)
Newest Member: Mikee
Post Volume: Total: 869,618 Year: 1,366/23,288 Month: 1,366/1,851 Week: 6/484 Day: 6/93 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   How to feed and keep the animals on the Ark?
nator
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 1 of 165 (52634)
08-28-2003 9:04 AM


I am hoping that the Noachic Flood proponents such as allenroyboy will address this problem.

How is it that Noah and Co. were able to stow enough food for all of the animals?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by John, posted 08-28-2003 10:01 AM nator has not yet responded
 Message 3 by Quetzal, posted 08-28-2003 10:06 AM nator has not yet responded
 Message 4 by docpotato, posted 08-28-2003 1:04 PM nator has not yet responded
 Message 15 by allenroyboy, posted 08-31-2003 4:48 AM nator has responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 165 (52654)
08-28-2003 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-28-2003 9:04 AM


They just took a little bit of food and then recycled.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 08-28-2003 9:04 AM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Bonobojones, posted 08-28-2003 7:48 PM John has responded

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4258 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 3 of 165 (52658)
08-28-2003 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-28-2003 9:04 AM


I thought Woodmorappe or Morris or one of that crowd had postulated that God placed all the animals in magical stasis for the voyage. That would neatly solve both the space limitations and food limitations. Packing their frozen bodies in the Copper Age equivalent of styrofoam crates and stacking them on top of each other makes as much logical sense as any other scenario I've read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 08-28-2003 9:04 AM nator has not yet responded

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 3434 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 4 of 165 (52682)
08-28-2003 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-28-2003 9:04 AM


I always suspected that they fed the animals pieces of "Ham".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 08-28-2003 9:04 AM nator has not yet responded

  
Bonobojones
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 165 (52751)
08-28-2003 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by John
08-28-2003 10:01 AM


Recycled? What, meadow mcmuffins for breakfast?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by John, posted 08-28-2003 10:01 AM John has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by John, posted 08-29-2003 1:32 AM Bonobojones has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 165 (52798)
08-29-2003 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Bonobojones
08-28-2003 7:48 PM


Lots of undigested material in that stuff!!!

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Bonobojones, posted 08-28-2003 7:48 PM Bonobojones has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 7 of 165 (53007)
08-30-2003 7:15 PM


OK, come on all you believers in the Flood!!

Why don't you want to discuss this??


Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by simple, posted 02-18-2004 5:51 PM nator has not yet responded

  
nator
Member (Idle past 556 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 165 (53010)
08-30-2003 7:40 PM


This is something I figured out about a year ago in another thread in this forum.

Flood believers, what do you think?

OK, here is something I have intimate knowledge of; feeding horses.

Let's assume that there were only two horses on the Ark.

Let us also assume that they were of average size and were relatively easy keepers.

Let us ignore the fact that keeping a horse standing still in a small stall for a year would be quite dangerous to it's health, as they need to move around to keep their guts working properly.

Let us also ignore the muscle atrophy and depression and boredome which would also have detrimental effects.

Let us also assume that we would not feed these horses grain, because anyone who feeds horses knows that confining a horse and feeding it lots of grain (high-powered) food is a prescription for life-threatening health problems (colic) and excitability and unruliness. Letting the horse roam on several acres (at least) of land and feeding it hay and grass (low-powered) food generally results in a much more sane, tractable, placid horse.

Now that we have determined that Noah would need to take on a lot of hay to feed these horses, let's see if we can figure out how much these two horses would need.

Well, if we are talking about a sedentary horse, and just wanting to get it to survive, not necessarily keeping it in good weight, I estimate, very conservatively, that you could get away with feeding the horses 15 pounds of hay a day, each. A bale of hay is something like 30 pounds.

This means that Noah, just to feed two horses and no other herbivores on the Ark, would need nearly 11,000 pounds of hay for 365 days.

Of course, this doesn't even account for the fresh water that would have to be stowed on board, as nobody could drink sea water and they couldn't collect enough rain in 40 days and 40 nights to last them the other 325 days.

Horses drink about 6-10 gallons of water a day, so this makes the two horses' minimum fresh water requirements for the year at 4,380 gallons.


Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 08-30-2003 8:46 PM nator has responded
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 08-30-2003 8:52 PM nator has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5428
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 9 of 165 (53020)
08-30-2003 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
08-30-2003 7:40 PM


Well now, Schraf, I think I can get our creationist friends out of this muddle before they even get here. All they need to do is accept Eohippus (= Hyracotherium) as the Noachic representative of the Horse Kind, and they're in the clear! Medium dog-sized, eats and drinks less, maybe even easy to housebreak.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 08-30-2003 7:40 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by nator, posted 09-01-2003 9:27 AM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 10 of 165 (53022)
08-30-2003 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
08-30-2003 7:40 PM


Well, I do not believe it to be impossible but heres a verse for you, considering your view of impossibility towards the Flood's happening.

Mark 10:27 - Jesus looked at them and said, "With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God."

------------------
Psalm 14:1
The Fool says in his heart, "There is no God."
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 08-30-2003 7:40 PM nator has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by John, posted 08-31-2003 1:19 AM joshua221 has not yet responded

  
Charlemange
Inactive Junior Member


Message 11 of 165 (53032)
08-31-2003 12:52 AM


How many animals do we assume he had on the ark to feed?

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by John, posted 08-31-2003 1:21 AM Charlemange has responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 165 (53035)
08-31-2003 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by joshua221
08-30-2003 8:52 PM


Magic? Do you really consider that an answer?

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by joshua221, posted 08-30-2003 8:52 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 165 (53036)
08-31-2003 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Charlemange
08-31-2003 12:52 AM


Creationists like to push a figure like 17,000. But even that is far too many for the ark and the idea require some amazingly rapid hyper-evolution immediately after the flood in order to account for the millions of species around today.

------------------
www.hells-handmaiden.com


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Charlemange, posted 08-31-2003 12:52 AM Charlemange has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Charlemange, posted 08-31-2003 2:10 AM John has responded

  
Charlemange
Inactive Junior Member


Message 14 of 165 (53042)
08-31-2003 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by John
08-31-2003 1:21 AM


The total cubic volume would have been 1,518,000 cubic feet [462,686.4 cubic meters]...that's equal to the capacity of 569 modern railroad stock cars. If the number can be agreed at 17,000 - 20,000, it would seem like enough room for them. There are really only a few very large animals, such as the dinosaur or the elephant, and they could have been todds.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by John, posted 08-31-2003 1:21 AM John has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Brian, posted 08-31-2003 10:37 AM Charlemange has not yet responded
 Message 17 by John, posted 08-31-2003 1:37 PM Charlemange has not yet responded

  
allenroyboy
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 165 (53050)
08-31-2003 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nator
08-28-2003 9:04 AM


I recommend the book "Noah's Ark: A feasibility Study" by John Woodmorappe, 1996. If your local library does not have the it, it can easily be inter-library loaned.

Part I A complete Inventory of the Animals and Supplies on the Ark.

Chapter 1: Which part of the animal kingdom was on the Ark?
Chapter 2: Floor Space Allotments for the Animals.
Chapter 3: Quantities of Water and provender Required
Chapter 4: Wast Management
Chapter 5: Heating, Ventilation, and Illumination of the Ark.

Part II Alleged Difficulties Regarding the ARk and its Cargo.

Chapter 6: Some Factors in the Construction of the Ark
Chapter 7: The Gathering of Animals suitable for year-long Captivity.
Chatper 8: Manpower Studies: Eight People care for 16000 animals?
Chapter 9: Basic Living Conditions on the Ark.
Chapter 10: The preservation of Feedstuffs on the Ark.
Chapter 11: The Colossal Bulk of Hay Required for large Herbivores
Chapter 12: Feeding Challenges I: Animals the Eat Fresh or Live Food.
Chapter 13: Feeding Challenges II: Animals with specialized Diets
Chapter 14: Boarding the Ark: The Fallacy of Climatic Barriers.
Chapter 15: Dormancy of Anim als on the Ark.

Part III: The Recovery of Earth's Biosphere after the Flood

Chapter 16: How Organisms outside the Ark Survived the Flood
Chapter 17: Biological Effects of Semi-saline Floodwater.
Chapter 18: How Amphibians Survived the Flood.
Chapter 19: Alleged Problems facing the Post-diluvian plants.
Chapter 20: End-Flood Events: Why the Ark in the Mountains?
Chapter 21: Food Sources in the "Barren" Postflood World
Chapter 22: The first post-diluvian food chains.

Part IV The Adequacy of Single pairs in the repopulation of the World

Chapter 23: Demographic Ramifications of Single-pair founders
Chapter 24: Avoinding the Hazards of Inbreeding
Chapter 25: The Ark Animals: Carriers of Adequate Genetic Diversity
Chapter 26: The Post-Flood Generation of Rare Allels
Chapter 27: The Restoration of variation in Mitochondrial DNA
Chapter 28: Was Noah Afflicted with Diseases?

Part V Conclusion

Chapter 29: Conclusion.

I realize that to most people on this bulletin board all this is nothing more than frivilous amusement, but this book shows that thought and research has been done to address an assorment of issues that have been raised and that there is nothing new under the sun. If someone is really interested in what has been proposed to deal the the purported problems concerning the keeping of animals on the Ark (and associated issues) this is the best source of information to be found anywhere. There is no need for me to reproduce this information here as it is already easily available to all.

Allen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nator, posted 08-28-2003 9:04 AM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by nator, posted 09-01-2003 9:43 AM allenroyboy has responded
 Message 75 by sidelined, posted 09-06-2003 9:53 AM allenroyboy has responded
 Message 130 by Rei, posted 09-17-2003 9:18 PM allenroyboy has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020