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Author Topic:   Admins (or anyone) Look at this please.
joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 1 of 19 (68168)
11-20-2003 9:12 PM


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1)Jehoiachin’s Age
(2 CHR 36:9) Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began his reign
(2 KNGS 24:8) Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began his reign
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What Bible are you reading, I just looked them up in my Bible, both books are valid in saying he was 8 when he began his reign...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2)1,700 or 7,000 Horsemen
(2 Samuel 8:4, 1 Chronicles 18:4) Samuel says that David captured 1,700 horsemen and Chronicles says he captured 7,000 in the exact same battle.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, LYING does not work, I looked it up 2 Sam 8:4, 1 says 7000 horsemen (charioteers.)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3)40,000 or 4,000 stalls
(1 Kings 4:26, 2 Chronicles 9:25) Kings says that Solomon had 40,000 stalls and Chronicles says he had 4,000 stalls.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, a lie. Chronicles states the same as Kings please look it up again!

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are 3 errors that there are no way around, except to admit that an error was made in the writting/organization of the Bible. Someone made mistakes here, either the "God inspired original writters" or the "God inspired organizers/redactors". You pick!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are three lies that you have stated, this is mind-boggling, please CAN SOMEONE LOOK AT THIS jargon?

(If no Bible is at hand you can search the Bible at bible.com)

------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.

Thats a Whole Lotta Love


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by MrHambre, posted 11-20-2003 9:24 PM joshua221 has responded
 Message 3 by Rei, posted 11-20-2003 9:37 PM joshua221 has not yet responded
 Message 5 by PaulK, posted 11-21-2003 3:14 AM joshua221 has not yet responded
 Message 6 by Brian, posted 11-21-2003 3:27 AM joshua221 has responded

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 413 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 2 of 19 (68179)
11-20-2003 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-20-2003 9:12 PM


Iron Man,

Real interesting. Now here's a suggestion, wanna shrink that avatar down a little bit? Those of us with old ENIAC home computers have a tough time downloading the oh-so-alluring self-portrait you decided to have accompany your wise words. What was wrong with the picture of that cool Gibson SG?

------------------
The dark nursery of evolution is very dark indeed.
Brad McFall


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 11-20-2003 9:12 PM joshua221 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by joshua221, posted 11-20-2003 9:41 PM MrHambre has not yet responded

Rei
Member (Idle past 6033 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 3 of 19 (68189)
11-20-2003 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-20-2003 9:12 PM


Read my response in the original thread. You're using NIV, aren't you?

NIV deliberately irons out scriptural contradictions. You should learn this.

------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 11-20-2003 9:12 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 4 of 19 (68194)
11-20-2003 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by MrHambre
11-20-2003 9:24 PM


My new avatar is prettier jk, uh I've been having some trouble with it actually. Can't shrink it entirely, any help would be great. Thanks for the suggestion, and the compliment haha. Oh the Gibson was cool though, nice guitar... (*Starts to dream about some nice guitars)

------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.

Thats a Whole Lotta Love


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by MrHambre, posted 11-20-2003 9:24 PM MrHambre has not yet responded

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17008
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 5 of 19 (68243)
11-21-2003 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-20-2003 9:12 PM


Well if I was an admin I would certainly be concerned that you had falsely accused another poster of lying.

Can you explain why you are reporting yourself ? Wouldn't it be better to get the facts straight in the first place ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 11-20-2003 9:12 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 3979 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 6 of 19 (68247)
11-21-2003 3:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by joshua221
11-20-2003 9:12 PM


Hi Iron Man

This is not my forum to moderate but before you throw around accusation of lying you should verify your sources. Also, you have to be certain that someone has lied, they could simply have made a genuine mistake.

The problem that was posted about Jehoischin's age is a very very well known one, it appears on thousands of websites, and the NIV is the only version I know of that doesn't have the contradiction in it, you should have done two minutes research first.

If I were you I would be more concerned that the authors of the Bible that you are using have changed the texts.

Maybe you should go to a website that allows access to different versions of the Bible, biblegateway.com is easily accessible, and have a look at the variations between the versions.

I had a NIV that gave footnotes that described these differences as they occurred, the editorial team are aiming for harmony rather than accuracy of translation.

I also think that an apology is in order from yourself to whoever you were calling a liar.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by joshua221, posted 11-20-2003 9:12 PM joshua221 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by joshua221, posted 11-22-2003 10:45 PM Brian has not yet responded

joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 7 of 19 (68687)
11-22-2003 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Brian
11-21-2003 3:27 AM


But the thing is that in the NIV the difference isn't there, and it isn't mentioned in his post. Also, jumped to conclusions when I did 2 mins of research checking in my Bible the verses, where the contradiction was "missing".

------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.

Thats a Whole Lotta Love


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Brian, posted 11-21-2003 3:27 AM Brian has not yet responded

Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 260 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 8 of 19 (68744)
11-23-2003 12:59 PM


Explanation of the differing ages of Jehoiachin:

* this site offers a far more realistic approach of what could have happened, theory one makes sense to me, I dont think there is a copyist error.

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/8or18.html

For the Horsemen:

http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/ata20020616.htm

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/resource/contrdct.htm

For the stalls:

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/num_stalls.html

I believe the latter here. I doubt copyist errors after reading more articles.*

God bless,

------------------
-chris

[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 11-23-2003]


Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by joshua221, posted 11-23-2003 5:37 PM Trump won has not yet responded
 Message 10 by zephyr, posted 11-23-2003 5:44 PM Trump won has not yet responded
 Message 11 by NosyNed, posted 11-23-2003 6:05 PM Trump won has not yet responded

joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 9 of 19 (68782)
11-23-2003 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Trump won
11-23-2003 12:59 PM


nice bro

------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.

Thats a Whole Lotta Love


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 11-23-2003 12:59 PM Trump won has not yet responded

zephyr
Member (Idle past 3570 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 10 of 19 (68790)
11-23-2003 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Trump won
11-23-2003 12:59 PM


From the first page:
quote:
God gave us a Bible free from error in the original manuscripts. In its preservation through many generations of recopying, he providentially kept it from serious error, although He permitted a few scribal mistakes.
This assertion is not supported by any evidence at all. They admit minor errors but insist that serious ones (i.e. alterations of doctrine) don't occur... but they don't offer any good reason for believing this. They just need to believe.

The fact that these minor errors exist is, in fact, a major reason NOT to believe that there's no chance of serious alterations having occurred. It also leads many to doubt that an all-powerful God is behind the fabrication of the text. I'll change my mind if you can give me one good reason why he would choose not to intervene when a careless scribe started making mistakes in copying his text. After all, his omniscience and omnipotence are right now being questioned because of that choice....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 11-23-2003 12:59 PM Trump won has not yet responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8965
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 19 (68801)
11-23-2003 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Trump won
11-23-2003 12:59 PM


So suddenly the Bible is not the perfect inerrant word of God? Funny that was the reason that so many arguments have been started. Your site agrees that there have been mistakes in the copying of it. Now we have an imperfect copy of some long lost original.

Let's be clear then, you have agreed with your reference site that errors have been introduced. Right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Trump won, posted 11-23-2003 12:59 PM Trump won has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 11-23-2003 6:14 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 12 of 19 (68807)
11-23-2003 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NosyNed
11-23-2003 6:05 PM


Errors in translation that is maybe.

------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.

Thats a Whole Lotta Love


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by NosyNed, posted 11-23-2003 6:05 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by joshua221, posted 11-23-2003 6:15 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 13 of 19 (68810)
11-23-2003 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by joshua221
11-23-2003 6:14 PM


*Errors in translation.

------------------
Bible
Search Results
"love" was found 865 times in 751 verses.

Thats a Whole Lotta Love


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by joshua221, posted 11-23-2003 6:14 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by NosyNed, posted 11-23-2003 6:27 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8965
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 14 of 19 (68818)
11-23-2003 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by joshua221
11-23-2003 6:15 PM


No I thought we already know that there are errors in translation and now we are adding copying errors as well. Then we have errors in interpretation it seems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by joshua221, posted 11-23-2003 6:15 PM joshua221 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by sidelined, posted 11-23-2003 6:44 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

sidelined
Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 15 of 19 (68836)
11-23-2003 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by NosyNed
11-23-2003 6:27 PM


I have always wondered something that just came to me again with these recent posts.These words are supposed to be the words of God and yet there is no complete undamaged unambiguous manuscript[Parchment?] of the bible in its entirety.We have scraps and those scraps themselves are so poorly agreed upon world wide[Though I am sure there are people who do a fine job with what they have]that I wonder how any message that would unify mankind could be considered to be somewhere among them.

You would think a God,who by all accounts can work miracles,could find a way to preserve the whole text unbroken.Yet we have excuses for this behaviour also.God is testing our faith.Then why allow any of it to survive? Why play games with faith since by other accounts he knows what is in our heart anyway and therefore is already aware of our decisions.
It is not merely difficult to square the actions with the intent,I would maintain that it is useless and the best explanation is that it is myth and politics.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by NosyNed, posted 11-23-2003 6:27 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

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