Harun Yahya [not] on an online debate.

Here in EvC we have some webmasters, evolutionist and creationist, engaged in debates over their views. Recently a Harun Yahya article was posted in IslamOnline and it provoked many reactions. And IslamOnline decided to put an online debate of evolution in its forum. For the first time, I see the guys there at Harun Yahya co. in an open forum. Here is the debate site. However, they do not answer direct questions but they just threw more of their material into the forum.

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Originally posted by Andya Primanda:
Here in EvC we have some webmasters, evolutionist and creationist, engaged in debates over their views. Recently a Harun Yahya article was posted in IslamOnline and it provoked many reactions. And IslamOnline decided to put an online debate of evolution in its forum. For the first time, I see the guys there at Harun Yahya co. in an open forum. Here is the debate site. However, they do not answer direct questions but they just threw more of their material into the forum.

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Hi Andya,Is there any such thing as an "official party line" as regards Islam and evolution? Its just that I remember reading somewhere that Islam had no problem with the concept of evolution by natural selection, but given that there is not one recognisable voice of Islam for the majority of the ummah, it could just be that it was a particular branch / sect which believed this.My mother would tell me that Darwin's explanation was correct, except that God created Adam "personally", and I'm not sure how much this was pure improvised or part of an Islamic tradition. Are you aware of any Islamic firq which accept Darwinian natural selection and somehow marry this with the writings in the Quran?PE

Recently I attended a wonderful session on science & religion featuring Mahmoud Ayyoub, a Lebanese historian of Islam and philosophy professor at Temple University. Prof Ayyoub said that Muslims generally do not have a theological problem with evolution because Islam does not recognize the concepts of Original Sin and Jesus Christ as Saviour, which is linked to the literal account of creation of Adam in Genesis. Nor does Muslims need to worry if man evolved from some lower creature because man is not an image of Allah (unlike the Christian doctrine of Imago Dei). The only thing that bothers Muslims about evolution is that some had used it to promote atheism and materialism, which I believe is the main force behind Harun Yahya's creationism. HY & co. lives in Turkey, a country where Islam is the majority yet the government and military are fiercely secular (although the newly-elected president, Recep Erdogan, might be able to change that) and they are truly concerned with the (mis)use of Darwin to promote materialism and atheism. Anyway, Muslims do not have a centralized authority like the Catholic church so we may have differences in opinion any time.For a review of how Muslims react to evolution check 'Muslim responses on evolution' here:
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.hssrd.org/journal.htmAnyway, are you a Muslim?Most Muslims I know that accept evolution have some reservations about the creation of man, they seem to exclude man from being just another product of evolution. My personal interpretation is that the Qur'an is ambiguous about this and I accept the scientific explanation on the origin of man.

As a muslim I believe that evolution is a false concept on the creation of man. The evolution theory was just made for the sake of agnostic people having a reasonable explanation of the creation of man. The common sense and logical reasoning of the creation of man is that one high and just ruler created mankind for a purpose only he knows. Gods evidence of his being is manifest all around us and to believe that evolution caused the creation of man is a disgrace to the perfect discomposition God created us by.

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The evolution theory was just made for the sake of agnostic people having a reasonable explanation of the creation of man.

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Are you aware of the history of the theory of evolution (in the west at least, I have no knowledge of the history of research in other parts of the world)? What makes you think that it was purely "agnostic" people who were looking into this?

Are you saying that original sin and Jesus Christ as saviour are linked to a literal account of creation of Adam? Or are you saying that these concepts lead to a literal reading of Genesis? There is a literal account in the Qur'an of the special creation of Adam.

I'm a Muslim and I disagree with Mustafa here. I believe that one can be a Muslim and still accept Evolution as the best Scientific theory for the diversity of life. The evidence for Common descent I feel is pretty much overwhelming, I consider myself a theistic evolutionist in this regard. Edited by Isana Kadeb, : No reason given.Edited by Isana Kadeb, : Added a bit

welcome to the fray Not sure how you get this. Can you run through the logic steps for me?Also I need to know what you think is 'common sense' - as frequently it is just what someone believes and believes everyone should believe (whether it is common or not and whether or not it makes 'sense' ...)? I find this statement rather self contradictory. It seems to me that evolution is part - a fundamental part - of the "evidence of his being is manifest all around us" issue, so to pick this out and exclude it from your consideration seems to me "a disgrace to the perfect discomposition (sic) God created us by." (ps - don't think you really mean {dis-composition / un-composition / de-composition} here -- discompensation? or just composition?)Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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welcome to the fray.Do you consider yourself a fundamentalist muslim?Do you think that there is a difference between (perhaps some) fundamentalist and other muslim thoughts on this issue?

I do belive in the evolution that the creatures evolve to the enviroments there live in and so on but when it comes to humen beings i disagree with the fact that they evolved from a lower form of creation. And what do you mean by fundamentalist, i do follow my fundamentals as a muslim.

Here in the US we distinguish between "fundamentalist" christians and other (not necessarily liberal) christians. We also see terrorists as associated with some "fundamentalist" sects (christian, jewish, muslim, hindu, etc). See discussion on wikipedia:Fundamentalism - Wikipedia(although curiously they omit hindu from "non-abrahamic" religions) Why are we ommitted from the created evolution of all other creatures? Are they more special than we are?Thanks.

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Hello I'm not exactly what you'd call deeply devout, but I believe nonetheless. I personally consider myself a liberal, and I believe Islam at its core is a liberal religion. Islamic fundamentalism is an oxymoron since Islam prescribes moderation and discretion in all aspects of human life (a fundamental concept in Islam). Unfortunately irrational fanaticism is a very real problem in this age in the Muslim World. This is our Dark Age. Unfortunately, I'd say the common perception of Evolution among Muslims is similar to those found among American Christians (overwhelmingly negative and hostile). I've not found many Muslims who mirror my views.Edited by Isana Kadeb, : Grammar

Thanks.I consider "liberal" to mean someone willing and able to look at several viewpoints and consider their relative merits, while "conservative" is more based on tradition, past thinking. At it's core so are most religions. I do think the problem is "irrational fanaticism" and not just in muslim, but christian, jewish, hindu, etcetera -- more as a reaction to the closing in of the world as it becomes overpopulated (no escape from 'those others') AND to the increasing knowledge of what really constitutes reality, the future too different from the past for some.Religion is just an easy tool for fanatics to use to corrupt the more gullible people, whether the leaders believe it or not (Does Osama? Does Bush? Does did Sharon?) unscrupulous politicians can wear whatever skins get them chosen.Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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