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Author Topic:   Omphalism
Straggler
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Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 1 of 4 (546016)
02-07-2010 12:15 PM


Omphalism is the claim that the universe is not as old as the empirical evidence dictates because it was created fully formed with the appearance of age. It is also known as Last Thursdayism. But the concept is equally (in)valid for any conceivable time in the past.
It could be the case that we were all magicked into existence only moments ago with full living memory of our existence prior to that point. Along with empirical evidence of a planet and indeed a universe that is billions of years old.
The reason I bring this up is because omphalism seems to have a certain hold over people who are otherwise fully functioning members of the pro-science contingent. Those who are happy to expound the virtues of empirical evidence with regard to the age of the Earth and universe in conversations with Young Earth Creationists (YEC's) suddenly become all coy about how old they believe the Earth is in conversations about omphalism. Rather than evaluate omphalistic claims in the context of what they have clearly stated they believe about the empirical conclusions with regard to these matters they instead suddenly profess agnosticism.
History suggests that omphalism is a creationist invention deployed to deny the validity of empirical evidence. But even putting that aside.........
Is it reasonable for those who repeatedly claim confidence and validity in the empirical conclusion that the Earth and Universe are billions of years old to also hold an agnostic position with regard to the non-empirical (indeed I would say anti-empirical) conclusion that the universe could have been created less than 10,000 years ago? Or indeed even last Thursday.
And by agnosticism I don't mean lack of absolute certainty. But I guess we can come to that if promoted.
This is an "Is it Science" topic. If promoted.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 02-07-2010 4:44 PM Straggler has replied

Admin
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Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 2 of 4 (546032)
02-07-2010 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
02-07-2010 12:15 PM


If this is intended to capture the two sides of the difference of opinion between you and Nwr, I don't think you have an accurate characterization of what Nwr was saying. If he wants to perhaps he'll send you a PM. I'll leave this open for now.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 02-07-2010 12:15 PM Straggler has replied

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 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 02-08-2010 8:16 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 3 of 4 (546085)
02-08-2010 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
02-07-2010 4:44 PM


Hi
Myself and nwr have had a private message chat and he says that he is happy to discuss. We both agree that "Is it Science" may not be the best place for it as neither of us are claiming that there is any empirically evidenced difference between the omphalist and non-omphalist universe. It is thus essentially a philosophical question about belief. He suggested the miscellaneaous topics forum. I suggested the faith and belief area. Wherever you think really.
And - for the record - I wasn't trying to present nwr's position in the OP at all. I was representing only my take on this topic and assumed that he would present himself in opposition if it was promoted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 02-07-2010 4:44 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 4 of 4 (546088)
02-08-2010 8:45 AM


Thread Copied to Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution Forum
Thread copied to the Omphalism thread in the Creation/Evolution Miscellany forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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