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Author Topic:   Subjective Evidence of Gods (Great Debate)
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Message 1 of 2 (623506)
07-11-2011 3:31 AM

Straggler writes:

Over in the Peanut Gallery the never-ending inductive atheism debate continues......
But Chuck77 has specifically cited subjective evidence as something that should be taken into account. Nor is he alone in advocating this form of "evidence" in this context. So I would like to start a thread specifically on the nature and validity of subjective evidence as applied to belief in gods.

Why dont we make it a "Great debate". Me and Him. That way, I can focus on Him and what he's asking and not the inevitable Straggler stragglers demanding answers on top of his already asked questions. After we've hashed it out some the thread can be opened for evereyone.

My subjective evidence is based on my christianity. Im not sure if he wants a more generalization about "god(s) or my God? I can go either way I suppose but im more familiar with evidence for my own faith. Also, why I feel it's the truth as opposed to all the other faiths.

I would like to ask the following:

1) What subjective evidence in favour of the existence of gods is there? Can someone provide some actual examples of this form of evidence?

Any "evidence" i.e. The Bible, answered prayer etc. is subjective. Some more than others. All you want are examples? I once prayed that my shoulder pain would be taken away. I prayed this prayer as I layed my right hand on my left shoulder:

"I wish above all things that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers." 3 John 1:2 KLV.

That's God speaking to me/us thru His word. Immediatly after I prayed it I was healed. No more pain.

2) Is subjective evidence limited to entities that can be empirically detected or not?

You mean like tea leaves? Tom Cruise of the Church of Scientology? To me, the Bible ( just one piece of evidence) is a supernatural book given to us by God himself. Prophets, peoples testimonys, dreams can be evidence.

3) On what basis (aside from belief) is the cause of these subjective experiences attributed to supernatural entities rather than to fluctuations in the matrix, undetectable telepathic aliens manipulating our minds or any other conceivable cause of such things?

In my instance and MANY others I know we know who it is we are communicating with. I know for a fact, based on my own experience that it is God almighty im talking to. Not E.T. As well as many others that can attest to the same exact thing.

I suppose UFO enthusiasts could say the same thing, if they couldn't would probably wouldn't be having this debate. I do believe we have more evidence than other faiths as to why ours (Christianity) is the thuth. There can't be two truths. I don't believe in Relativism. If I believe in that, I may as well drive down any street I want, wheather it's a one way or not. I'll find out that it's not relative. I feel the same way about religions.

4) Is belief itself a form of evidence on which we can justify belief?

Sure, if your belief is the result of the supernatural being bringing you into a relationship with Himself. It isn't me/us reaching out to a supernatural being. It's Him reaching out to me/us. Wheather it's in the Bible, a prophetic message or a shooting star, TV preacher, at some point that supernatural being became real.

The supernatural being is speaking, therefore it's no longer a question to me wheather He exists, but a fact. Just like you don't "believe" in Evolution we don't "believe" in God. We know God is real.

So, im not sure this is what you want. I guess I could try to argue all faiths have a reasonable argument but that might stretch me a little thin. I'd be more comfortable talking form experience i.e. the Christian God. I'll do my best to try to convince you that the Christian God exists. If not then just start the thread and i'll add what I can to it.

I know this is a logically invalid conclusion based on RAZD's concepts scale, and although I greatly respect RAZD im willing to argue my position, atleast.

Maybe it's better to say (for arguments sake) that i'll do my best to atleast try to show Straggler that there is a good possibility that the Christian God exists above all these other god(s) or the Matrix, even tho my position is that He does exist.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 07-11-2011 8:58 AM Chuck77 has not replied

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Message 2 of 2 (623537)
07-11-2011 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Chuck77
07-11-2011 3:31 AM

Topic Started in Great Debate Forum
The topic has been started in the Great Debate forum.
If you still want your post as a response, please cut and paste it in reply to Straggler in the Great Debate Forum.

If you have a moderator preference, please let us know, otherwise moderators will check in as they are able.

If problems do arise the Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0 thread is the appropriate place to ask for moderator help.

A reminder that Forum Guidelines still apply in the Great Debate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Chuck77, posted 07-11-2011 3:31 AM Chuck77 has not replied

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