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Author Topic:   Changing Income and Prosperity
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 12 (635531)
09-29-2011 3:49 PM


Interesting graph in today's Calamities of Nature
Calamities of Nature: Archive
Interestingly you can correlate when various presidents were in charge, but it would probably be better to correlate it with changes to the tax code.
It would also be interesting to see the US real budget spending on the same graph.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-29-2011 5:04 PM RAZD has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18292
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 12 (635536)
09-29-2011 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
09-29-2011 3:49 PM


Union Blues
As a 24 year member of a labor union, (8 years at current job) I see the wealthier people who own stock in the corporation, as well as corporate executives themselves, being the only ones benefiting from our economic malaise. Our wages are stagnant and the corporation is hiring cheaper available labor while allowing our bargaining unit to diminish through attrition. Labor is seen as nothing more than a bottom line expense, justifiably replaced with cheaper foreign and domestic workers. We are working harder and harder, however, and will attempt to strike an alliance through negotiations to ensure our necessary survival.\
AbE: It interesting to see the median and the minimum closing ranks on this graph, while the upper echelon shoots into the stratosphere. Evil is surely afoot.
Edited by Phat, : added comment

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 09-29-2011 3:49 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 09-29-2011 5:17 PM Phat has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 12 (635539)
09-29-2011 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
09-29-2011 5:04 PM


Re: Union Blues, Bloody Revolution Red or Peaceful Social Evolution
Hi Phat,
Yes I know many people in similar straights. I've been fortunate in being closer to the median, but I still feel the pinching.
It interesting to see the median and the minimum closing ranks on this graph, while the upper echelon shoots into the stratosphere. Evil is surely afoot.
What would be more accurate, imho, would be to compare prosperity as income less living expenses: if you make more money than you need to survive, have shelter, feed your family then you are prosperous, but if you don't then you are poor.
Surveys show the number of poor people has increased dramatically in the last decade - and this is a measure that does include those who have fallen off the "unemployment" charts because of time.
When the number of dissatisfied people becomes the vocal majority AND they understand that it is not government that is the problem, not socialist programs, and not the common workers, then change will come.
Will it be bloody revolution with new tyrants at the top or forceful but peaceful evolution to a higher social justice? I would like to think that we can evolve a higher social justice in government, but the Tea Partiers make me concerned that blind anger will trump reason.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-29-2011 5:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by hooah212002, posted 09-29-2011 5:30 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 12-04-2011 2:01 PM RAZD has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 820 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 4 of 12 (635541)
09-29-2011 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
09-29-2011 5:17 PM


Re: Union Blues, Bloody Revolution Red or Peaceful Social Evolution
nevermind. read it wrong, I think....
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 09-29-2011 5:17 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 09-29-2011 9:51 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 12 (635583)
09-29-2011 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by hooah212002
09-29-2011 5:30 PM


rethinking oil?
Hi hoohah212002
What do you think about this?
What would that do for the US budget?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by hooah212002, posted 09-29-2011 5:30 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by hooah212002, posted 09-30-2011 9:52 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 820 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 6 of 12 (635643)
09-30-2011 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
09-29-2011 9:51 PM


Re: rethinking oil?
What do you think about this?
I think we need to get off oil all together.
What would that do for the US budget?
It would never happen. Taxing the oil industry at 90%? That's a pipe dream. {abe} Not only that, but even if we did raise the taxes to that extent on the oil industry, do you honestly think the extra revenue would go to the citizens? No, it would go right back to the corporations, just like it does now.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Why don't you call upon your God to strike me? Oh, I forgot it's because he's fake like Thor, so bite me" -Greydon Square

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18292
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 12 (643064)
12-04-2011 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
09-29-2011 5:17 PM


Sobering Reality Of an Economic Tsunami
ZenDeist writes:
What would be more accurate, imho, would be to compare prosperity as income less living expenses: if you make more money than you need to survive, have shelter, feed your family then you are prosperous, but if you don't then you are poor.
Surveys show the number of poor people has increased dramatically in the last decade - and this is a measure that does include those who have fallen off the "unemployment" charts because of time.
When the number of dissatisfied people becomes the vocal majority AND they understand that it is not government that is the problem, not socialist programs, and not the common workers, then change will come.
Its really hard to stare reality in the face and feel any sort of optimism for the future.
FinancialIntelligenceReport writes:
Boston University’s Laurence Kotlikoff made headlines recently with his startling calculation of the real debt facing U.S. taxpayers $202 trillion. It’s not a hard figure to reach, he says, if you take the facts about our spending seriously and honestly.
Our official debt of $9 trillion is laughable, Kotlikoff argues. Add up our promises to pay for retirement and healthcare and our outstanding debts and compare that to realistically projected revenues: Unless we immediately double all taxes, we already are completely broke, he says. America’s entitlement programs are going to spend us into the economic grave, the economist warns...
Some higher taxes are inevitable, but there is simply no way the average person on the street can afford the bill that will eventually come due. And yet, those of us who rely on Social Security to stay off the street need their help...somehow.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 09-29-2011 5:17 PM RAZD has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by jar, posted 12-04-2011 3:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 9 by xongsmith, posted 12-04-2011 11:09 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 12 (643068)
12-04-2011 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
12-04-2011 2:01 PM


Re: Sobering Reality Of an Economic Tsunami
Of course they can afford to pay the bill, that is not the problem.
The problem is that the majority of Americans seem to not want to actually learn what the issues are.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 12-04-2011 2:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2587
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.7


(1)
Message 9 of 12 (643096)
12-04-2011 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
12-04-2011 2:01 PM


Re: Sobering Reality Of an Economic Tsunami
Phat writes:
Its really hard to stare reality in the face and feel any sort of optimism for the future.
Indeed.
My brother has posted extensively here about his fight against cancer. I expect to incur a similar fight somewhere in the future.
But somehow these days it seems less likely that we should die of cancer. As likely, I think we may be shot in some firing squad, in proud defiance of the wave of overpowering ignorance that returns the world to some real dark Dark Ages....

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 12-04-2011 2:01 PM Phat has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18292
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 12 (643811)
12-12-2011 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by xongsmith
12-04-2011 11:09 PM


Re: Sobering Reality Of an Economic Tsunami
I know these guys are selling something, but this presentation seems close to accurate. Any comments?
Subscribe to The High Income Factor

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 Message 9 by xongsmith, posted 12-04-2011 11:09 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Jon, posted 12-12-2011 9:06 AM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 12 (643828)
12-12-2011 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
12-12-2011 2:50 AM


Re: Sobering Reality Of an Economic Tsunami
I know these guys are selling something, but this presentation seems close to accurate. Any comments?
The word 'promo code' appears in the URL.
And that's all we need to know about that video.
Jon

Love your enemies!

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 Message 10 by Phat, posted 12-12-2011 2:50 AM Phat has replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18292
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 12 (643829)
12-12-2011 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jon
12-12-2011 9:06 AM


The Dream becomes a Mirage
you didnt even watch it, of course
Business Insider writes:
83 percent of all U.S. stocks are in the hands of 1 percent of the people.
61 percent of Americans "always or usually" live paycheck to paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.
66 percent of the income growth between 2001 and 2007 went to the top 1% of all Americans.
36 percent of Americans say that they don't contribute anything to retirement savings.
A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000 saved up for retirement.
24 percent of American workers say that they have postponed their planned retirement age in the past year.
Over 1.4 million Americans filed for personal bankruptcy in 2009, which represented a 32 percent increase over 2008.
Only the top 5 percent of U.S. households have earned enough additional income to match the rise in housing costs since 1975.
For the first time in U.S. history, banks own a greater share of residential housing net worth in the United States than all individual Americans put together.
In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.
As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.
The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.
Average Wall Street bonuses for 2009 were up 17 percent when compared with 2008.
In the United States, the average federal worker now earns 60% MORE than the average worker in the private sector.
The top 1 percent of U.S. households own nearly twice as much of America's corporate wealth as they did just 15 years ago.
In America today, the average time needed to find a job has risen to a record 35.2 weeks.
More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.
or the first time in U.S. history, more than 40 million Americans are on food stamps, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture projects that number will go up to 43 million Americans in 2011.
This is what American workers now must compete against: in China a garment worker makes approximately 86 cents an hour and in Cambodia a garment worker makes approximately 22 cents an hour.
Approximately 21 percent of all children in the United States are living below the poverty line in 2010 - the highest rate in 20 years.
Despite the financial crisis, the number of millionaires in the United States rose a whopping 16 percent to 7.8 million in 2009.
The top 10 percent of Americans now earn around 50 percent of our national income.
There is good reason that the OWS movement is happening. The worst is yet to come, yetfor 1% of us, life is better than ever.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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