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Author Topic:   Waiting on the End Times
sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 67 (79978)
01-22-2004 2:10 AM


I would like to see if any of the creationists have a clue as to when Armeggedon will finally arrive.I do not know about you but I am tired of hearing the endless babble for the actual date. In my short 46 years I have heard declarations 4 times that the world would definitely end from people I know personally,much less the famous book selling end timers. Funny how they allways write a book isn't it?


'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.'
(Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Azure Moon, posted 01-22-2004 1:37 PM sidelined has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Amlodhi, posted 01-22-2004 2:44 PM sidelined has not yet responded
 Message 6 by Abshalom, posted 01-22-2004 3:06 PM sidelined has responded
 Message 25 by Buzsaw, posted 01-23-2004 11:24 PM sidelined has responded

  
Mespo
Member (Idle past 1020 days)
Posts: 158
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio, USA
Joined: 09-19-2002


Message 2 of 67 (80052)
01-22-2004 11:56 AM


Poor, poor Russia
If you get an answer, sidelined, maybe he or she can also enlighten us on how Russia is supposed to come crashing down from the North and trigger the Big Battle. I mean, their economy is limping along and their military is laughable. Any Chechen rebel can easily take out a dozen Russian conscripts. Maybe Russia can get a loan from the IMF to upgrade their weaponry.

And China is having too much fun making money and taking our jobs away. Why start a war when getting rich is a much more enjoyable activity?

"THE END IS NEAR!"

"You're right. Your job just went to a sweat shop in Bejing. But just call this toll free number and they will connect you with a job placement counselor in New Delhi."

(:raig


    
Azure Moon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 67 (80081)
01-22-2004 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
01-22-2004 2:10 AM


Hi sidelined

The Gnostic in me says: End of times means a change in priorities of humanity. Away from greed, control, owning and controlling everything, etc., and moving back to a simplistic one on one spirituality with God, simpliticity in most things and acceptance of God's guidance in all things including when life sucks big time.

When will 'end of times begin'? As a gnostic -- the answer is not in a day or this many months, but in years. Many years. Like 360 years from beginning to end.

The big question for me is, when did the clock start ticking? Because yes, I think we've been in the 'end of times' for a few years now.


Azure Moon
Free-Thinkers: “Those who, abandoning the religious truths and moral dictates of the Christian Revelation, and accepting no dogmatic teaching on the ground of authority, base their beliefs on the unfettered findings of reason alone.” Catholic Encyclopedia.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 01-22-2004 2:10 AM sidelined has not yet responded

  
Amlodhi
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 67 (80093)
01-22-2004 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
01-22-2004 2:10 AM


Hi sidelined,

quote:
Originally posted by sidelined

In my short 46 years I have heard declarations 4 times that the world would definitely end from people I know personally,much less the famous book selling end timers. Funny how they allways write a book isn't it?


What's even funnier is that they all put the profits from those books into long-term investments.

Namaste'

Amlodhi

[This message has been edited by Amlodhi, 01-22-2004]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 01-22-2004 2:10 AM sidelined has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Mespo
Member (Idle past 1020 days)
Posts: 158
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio, USA
Joined: 09-19-2002


Message 5 of 67 (80098)
01-22-2004 3:01 PM


The End has started?
Well, yes and no, Azure Moon. I agree that more and more people have embraced a one-on-one with God. Organized religion be damned. However, the very nature of this new one-ness will gravitate toward conventional worship.

"Oh, you worship that way?. So do I. Let's get together".

There is also the issue of accountability. Since there is no central authority in the new one-ness, then free-thinking is also a synonym for free-for-all. Everyone is right. No one is wrong. Although, my beliefs may be more right than yours.

And I don't see one smidgen in the reduction of materialism. Although there is a much greater emphasis on beauty and looks than years past. The new narcissim. God is beautiful. I believe in God. Therefore, I am also beautiful.

(:raig


Replies to this message:
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Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 67 (80100)
01-22-2004 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sidelined
01-22-2004 2:10 AM


Git Yer Kicks Before 2006
Over in another thread, Stephen Ben Yashau was telling Ned, "My latest (scientific work is titled) 'Food Chain Dynamics, The Central Theory of Ecology.' Unless I decide to go ahead and write my book, 'Evolition, the origin of species by means of artificial selection and genetic engineering,' this paper is my bid to make the big time in the history of science. It's coming along. But the Bible codes are predicting a nuclear holocaust in 2006 to which the Israeli intelligence is saying, "We already knew that from other sources." So, there may not be much a history of science to impress.

I gotta go with the man in the know

[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 01-22-2004]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sidelined, posted 01-22-2004 2:10 AM sidelined has responded

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Mespo
Member (Idle past 1020 days)
Posts: 158
From: Mesopotamia, Ohio, USA
Joined: 09-19-2002


Message 7 of 67 (80118)
01-22-2004 4:04 PM


Tierra del Fuego
My answer to the nuclear holocaust Abshalom is, and always has been...

Tierra del Fuego

Why? Because nobody gives a damn about South America. It doesn't fit into anyone's end time geography. Most people can't find it on a map, let alone the country it is in, Argentina. You're not going to bomb someplace you can't find.

In the beginning, God created Argentina and He said "It is good". Then He realized it was too good, so He created Argentinians.
- old Argentinian folk story -

(:raig


    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5386
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 8 of 67 (80125)
01-22-2004 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Amlodhi
01-22-2004 2:44 PM


What's even funnier is that they all put the profits from those books into long-term investments.

Several years ago, around Christmas, I saw a single tabloid newspaper in the store with (roughly) both of these headlines on the cover:
"Rapture Coming by Easter, say Scientists"
"How to Get Your Family Out of Debt in Six Months"

If "a", why "b"??


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Amlodhi, posted 01-22-2004 2:44 PM Amlodhi has not yet responded

    
Azure Moon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 67 (80181)
01-22-2004 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Mespo
01-22-2004 3:01 PM


Re: The End has started?
Mespo: There is also the issue of accountability.

Huge, huge, huge part of Gnosis. Self accountability. Look at it this way. Traditional religions are basically -- our doctrine says, if you do this and this and that, but not these things and definitely stick to the rules, we're pretty sure your chances of God not ass-zapping you to hell are really increased.

For a gnostic who has God in his/her life one to one, it would go something like this: I got angry at my new wife, and slammed her against the wall and her neck broke. I will turn myself in. This attitude is where Gnosis is awesome, and this is where a lot of the changes are going to show up. Accountability. Total accountability. You're not going to let God down and God won't let you down. To a gnostic, God is your partner, an intregal part of who you are. It is soooooo much more difficult to be a gnostic.

Being a free-thinker has absolutely nothing to do with being Gnostic. Not even close.

***
Mespo: However, the very nature of this new one-ness will gravitate toward conventional worship.

Then why aren't all the church pews full instead of continuing on the decline? The gnostic answer is: If God wants those church pews full, they will be. In a true gnostic, control and conformity of others are not part of the belief system.

***
Mespo: The new narcissim. God is beautiful. I believe in God. Therefore, I am also beautiful.

This is NOT gnosis. I don't know where this comes from but I sure hope you didn't pay for it.


Azure Moon
Free-Thinkers: “Those who, abandoning the religious truths and moral dictates of the Christian Revelation, and accepting no dogmatic teaching on the ground of authority, base their beliefs on the unfettered findings of reason alone.” Catholic Encyclopedia.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Mespo, posted 01-22-2004 3:01 PM Mespo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Amlodhi, posted 01-22-2004 8:50 PM Azure Moon has responded

  
sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 67 (80187)
01-22-2004 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Abshalom
01-22-2004 3:06 PM


Re: Git Yer Kicks Before 2006
Abshalom

Yes I already have called him on it and hopefully in Jan 2007 we can raise a glass of our favorite brew and toast his error LOL!


'Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not his own facts.'
(Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Abshalom, posted 01-22-2004 3:06 PM Abshalom has not yet responded

  
Amlodhi
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 67 (80193)
01-22-2004 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Azure Moon
01-22-2004 7:29 PM


Re: The End has started?
Hi Azure Moon,

quote:
Originally posted by Azure Moon

This is NOT gnosis. I don't know where this comes from but I sure hope you didn't pay for it.


Serious question with no slight intended: Are you an "orthodox" gnostic or some version of neo-gnostic? For instance, do you think that YHWH, the God of standard Christianity is the evil demiurge who sought to withhold "gnosis" from mankind?

Namaste'

Amlodhi


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Azure Moon, posted 01-22-2004 7:29 PM Azure Moon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 01-22-2004 11:11 PM Amlodhi has not yet responded
 Message 13 by Azure Moon, posted 01-22-2004 11:11 PM Amlodhi has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12274
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 12 of 67 (80210)
01-22-2004 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Amlodhi
01-22-2004 8:50 PM


Re: The End has started? Roll the Credits!
First, allow me to be logical. No weapon has ever been produced that is not ultimately used. The world has tens of thousands of nuclear weapons. Humanity cannot agree on cooperation. The West wants to keep their money, industry, freedom, and the right to allow their kids to inherit the same 70% conrol over the resources on the planet. The multinational corporations have no alliegance to any one country, but are generally pro western. The bulk of the earths population is in China and India. So...logically,conflict shall continue.
What about the Bible? Well..IF this book could be assumed to be true and literal, Jesus Himself did not know the time.
Eccl 9:12 Moreover, no man knows when his hour will come:
As fish are caught in a cruel net,
or birds are taken in a snare,
so men are trapped by evil times
that fall unexpectedly upon them.

So what does this mean? Quit trippin on the Last Days! Any one of us could die tomorrow! That is our last day! Live for the moment in love and peace> I believe that God is in control of my life, so who cares what happens? I need only to be real and loving with those people whom He has placed around me.

[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-22-2004]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Amlodhi, posted 01-22-2004 8:50 PM Amlodhi has not yet responded

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Azure Moon
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 67 (80211)
01-22-2004 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Amlodhi
01-22-2004 8:50 PM


Re: The End has started?
Amlodhi: Serious question with no slight intended: Are you an "orthodox" gnostic or some version of neo-gnostic? For instance, do you think that YHWH, the God of standard Christianity is the evil demiurge who sought to withhold "gnosis" from mankind?

Namaste'

Amlodhi

***
Hi Amlodhi,

Good question. How about neither? I do lean toward more orthodox views, namely simplicity, but the original un-doctored gnostic writings evidentially are long gone. I don't want to use the word orthodox without having those foundational writings complete and un-doctored.

For the current Gnostic trends, I tend to refer to the gnostic writings of Sylvia Browne. Which were making some sense to me until I reached the parts about tree gnomes, wood sprites, Lillith who is (if I remember correctly) the underground god who keeps all our nightmares in a cave and we can go there to get the shit scared out of us if we want and she is also the god in charge of all the children but is very upset that she can't find all the missing children. EGADS! So, I shy away from anything the begins to reek of being manipulated. (I think I remember this correctly. It's been awhile.)

My view on God. Um. I believe that man removed gnosis (knowledge of god) from man and established for us the god of religion that we know today. I think establishing the Old Testament was necessary for society at the time, but is not a truthful representation of God.

So, how about if you tell me. Just where do you think I fit in the labeling department? I've never really bothered to apply a label to my beliefs beyond the word gnostic.


Azure Moon
Free-Thinkers: “Those who, abandoning the religious truths and moral dictates of the Christian Revelation, and accepting no dogmatic teaching on the ground of authority, base their beliefs on the unfettered findings of reason alone.” Catholic Encyclopedia.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Amlodhi, posted 01-22-2004 8:50 PM Amlodhi has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 01-22-2004 11:17 PM Azure Moon has responded
 Message 17 by Amlodhi, posted 01-23-2004 12:51 AM Azure Moon has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12274
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 14 of 67 (80214)
01-22-2004 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Azure Moon
01-22-2004 11:11 PM


Re: The End has started?God gnows.
Here is a definition that I think is fairly descriptive, contrasting our thought processes:
The doctrine of salvation by knowledge. This definition, based on the etymology of the word (gnosis "knowledge", gnostikos, "good at knowing"), is correct as far as it goes, but it gives only one, though perhaps the predominant, characteristic of Gnostic systems of thought. Whereas Judaism and Christianity, and almost all pagan systems, hold that the soul attains its proper end by obedience of mind and will to the Supreme Power, i.e. by faith and works, it is markedly peculiar to Gnosticism that it places the salvation of the soul merely in the possession of a quasi-intuitive knowledge of the mysteries of the universe and of magic formulae indicative of that knowledge. Gnostics were "people who knew", and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings, whose present and future status was essentially different from that of those who, for whatever reason, did not know. A more complete and historical definition of Gnosticism would be:

A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Saviour.
However unsatisfactory this definition may be, the obscurity, multiplicity, and wild confusion of Gnostic systems will hardly allow of another. Many scholars, moreover, would hold that every attempt to give a generic description of Gnostic sects is labour lost.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Azure Moon, posted 01-22-2004 11:11 PM Azure Moon has responded

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Azure Moon
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 67 (80223)
01-22-2004 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
01-22-2004 11:17 PM


Re: The End has started?God gnows.
Hello Phatboy,

Thanks for the information. Very interesting. I've read a lot about gnosis, but never this particular description. That is an excellent description BTW. It took a long time for me to deal with changing from a strict (screaming hell and damnation) Baptist childhood to the peace of gnostic.

***Gnostics were "people who knew", and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings,***

The part about the "superior class of beings," is probably a huge reason Gnosis was basically irradicated. I can't imagine the Roman Empire being thrilled with that little item. And I didn't know that. It doesn't apply today, but it sure does explain a lot.

Again thanks. The stuff I learn here. Amazing.


Azure Moon
Free-Thinkers: “Those who, abandoning the religious truths and moral dictates of the Christian Revelation, and accepting no dogmatic teaching on the ground of authority, base their beliefs on the unfettered findings of reason alone.” Catholic Encyclopedia.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 01-22-2004 11:17 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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