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Author Topic:   About New Lamarckian Synthesis Theory
zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 1 of 5 (674375)
09-28-2012 9:22 AM


Why evolutionists are not willing to discuss Lamarckian scenario in evolution?
I understand that as Lamarckism is an evolutional theory , any discussion about it would weaken the thesis of evolution theory against ID. But should this be an excuse for the scientists for not willing to discuss it? Doesn’t it show that scientists, at least in this forum, are only caring for to protect at any cost the sacred caw of exclusive random mutations? This is very disappointing to me.
Of course nobody supports that mutations, insertions, transpositions repairing etc, are conscious acts towards fitness, no more than of the parts of a working machine made by an intelligent man. Here in the case of existing living creatures we have to accept either a Superior Intelligence, or that Natural Forces and Laws are able to lead to these creatures. This is the real big problem we have to face, instead of quarreling around.
We can’t stop in between, if we want to be sincere.
In Wikipedia we read:
Epigenetic inheritance
Forms of 'soft' or epigenetic inheritance within organisms have been suggested as neo-Lamarckian in nature by such scientists as Eva Jablonka and Marion J. Lamb. In addition to 'hard' or genetic inheritance, involving the duplication of genetic material and its segregation during meiosis, there are other hereditary elements that pass into the germ cells also. These include things like methylation patterns in DNA and chromatin marks, both of which regulate the activity of genes. These are considered "Lamarckian" in the sense that they are responsive to environmental stimuli and can differentially affect gene expression adaptively, with phenotypic results that can persist for many generations in certain organisms. Although the reality of epigenetic inheritance is not doubted (as many experiments have validated it), its significance to the evolutionary process is uncertain.
its significance to the evolutionary process is uncertain.
Yes I agree but what is certain about in classic theory except natural selection? Specially as it regards evolution by random mutations? Only indications and beliefs not substantiated. The same it applies to Lamarckism, though the evidence is growing up all the time and it seems that it would incorporate randomness, as a helpful mechanism of evolution amongst others, in the New Lamarckian Synthesis theory.
Of course we know about clearly random mutations caused by X-rays, chemicals etc, But most of them are deleterious and in any case not substantial to evolution.
Classic evolutionists have to face this fact: ANY MUTATION DETRIMENTAL, NEUTRAL OR USEFUL IS A GUIDED BY THE ENVIRONMENT MUTATION. Not a single scientific work up to now had convincingly excluded it in all relevant described cases. Surely they had ignored guided mutations, but not excluded it.
Let me relate some relevand data:
"Soma to germ-line feedback
In the 1970s the immunologist Ted Steele, formerly of the University of Wollongong, and colleagues, proposed a neo-Lamarckian mechanism to try to explain why homologous DNA sequences from the VDJ gene regions of parent mice were found in their germ cells and seemed to persist in the offspring for a few generations. The mechanism involved the somatic selection and clonal amplification of newly acquired antibody gene sequences that were generated via somatic hyper-mutation in B-cells. The mRNA products of these somatically novel genes were captured by retroviruses endogenous to the B-cells and were then transported through the blood stream where they could breach the soma-germ barrier and retrofect (reverse transcribe) the newly acquired genes into the cells of the germ line."
"A Comeback for Lamarckian Evolution?
Two new studies show that the effects of a mother's early environment can be passed on to the next generation.
Wednesday, February 4, 2009
Silencing DNA: Adding methyl groups to specific spots in the genome can alter the expression of marked genes. The process, known as DNA methylation, is one mechanism of epigenetic change, heritable change that does not alter the sequence of DNA itself. In this image, colored bars represent the bases that make up a strand of DNA, while the green circles represent methylation.
Technology Review
The effects of an animal's environment during adolescence can be passed down to future offspring, according to two new studies. If applicable to humans, the research, done on rodents, suggests that the impact of both childhood education and early abuse could span generations. The findings provide support for a 200-year-old theory of evolution that has been largely dismissed: Lamarckian evolution, which states that acquired characteristics can be passed on to offspring.
"....The results are extremely surprising and unexpected," says Li-Huei Tsai, a neuroscientist at MIT who was not involved in the research. Indeed, one of the studies found that a boost in the brain's ability to rewire itself and a corresponding improvement in memory could be passed on. "This study is probably the first study to show there are transgenerational effects not only on behavior but on brain plasticity."
The results of both studies are likely to be controversial, perhaps resurrecting a centuries-old debate. "It's very provocative," says Lisa Monteggia, a neuroscientist at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, in Dallas. "It goes back to two schools of thought: Lamarck versus Darwin."
"But the research now makes it more plausible that these things may be real and may be based in molecular mechanisms."
Edited by zi ko, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Reformat so it's easier to tell Zi Ko's own words from the words he quotes.
Edited by Admin, : Correct spelling error in title.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 09-28-2012 11:23 AM zi ko has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 2 of 5 (674389)
09-28-2012 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by zi ko
09-28-2012 9:22 AM


Your proposal is mostly about epigenetic inheritance, but you also mention a "Superior Intelligence". Did you just want to discuss epigenetic inheritance, or did you want to argue that epigenetic inheritance requires and is therefore evidence for a "Superior Intelligence"?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by zi ko, posted 09-28-2012 9:22 AM zi ko has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by zi ko, posted 09-30-2012 12:45 AM Admin has replied

zi ko
Member (Idle past 3619 days)
Posts: 578
Joined: 01-18-2011


Message 3 of 5 (674529)
09-30-2012 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
09-28-2012 11:23 AM


I intent to discuss mainly epigenetic inheritance together with comparing the existing evidence for random mutations useful to evolution vs guided mutations through environmental effect on genome.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 09-28-2012 11:23 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 09-30-2012 2:15 PM zi ko has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 4 of 5 (674560)
09-30-2012 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by zi ko
09-30-2012 12:45 AM


Okay, so because you have indicated you will not be arguing for a "Superior Intelligence" I will promote your thread to the Biological Evolution forum instead of the Intelligent Design forum.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by zi ko, posted 09-30-2012 12:45 AM zi ko has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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Message 5 of 5 (674565)
09-30-2012 2:15 PM


Thread Copied to Biological Evolution Forum
Thread copied to the About New Lamarckian Synthesis Theory thread in the Biological Evolution forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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