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Author Topic:   Increases in Genetic Information
jbozz21
Member (Idle past 4000 days)
Posts: 46
From: Provo, UT
Joined: 04-19-2013


Message 1 of 4 (696996)
04-20-2013 3:59 AM


In order for all life on earth to Evolve from a single micro-organism, that life has to go through the two types of evolution. Micro and Macro. In a previous post, those people discussing were not able to come to an agreed definition of the difference between the two. I would like to propose a definition based off of simple understanding of Genetics.
Micro-evolution:
Micro evolution is changing of allele frequency within or between populations of the same "species", but not divergence into different "species" because even if two types of populations emerge from one population many times they can merge back into one population. If they can merge than they are not separate species. This is genetic drift and adaptation by natural selection.
Macro-evolution:
In order for one organism to evolve into a two types of organisms, they have to be separated into two populations and then have enough mutations (that do not hurt or kill the organism and actually change the physiology of the organism) to completely change the organism into two distinguishable types ("kinds") that cannot re-mix their genetic information. They then become two separate "species" That is macro-evolution.
I want to strictly impose that these two populations CANNOT remix when they diverge. Not just that they typically don't remix just because they don't feel like it or they are too far away, but they cannot physically, and or genetically remix.
Evolution of all life on earth requires more than just a changing of genetic information but an increase in genetic information between two types of animals. For example, the average species of bacteria have anywhere between 600,000 base pairs of DNA and 7 million base pairs. The average human has about "3164.7 million chemical nucleotide bases"
Human Genome Project Information Site Has Been Updated
So if all life started as a single bacteria, that bacteria would have to have increased in genetic information as it evolved into different organisms such as a fish or something and then into salamander then lizard or something, all the way up to a human. (I don't know the entire transition)
Mutations would have to occur which code for new enzymes or proteins that perform new, useful and beneficial functions. This would mean that the new mutation would have to insert a huge amount of new base pairs into the genetic code all at once or one base pair at a time over a long time (but those new genes don't get deleted or changed back for some reason).
Macro evolution with mutations that increase new, useful and/or beneficial genetic information that makes the organism more complex have to both be possible, have happened in the past and happen today in order for all life on earth to have evolved from a single micro-organism.
Does everyone agree with these definitions?
What evidence is there for Macro-evolution?
Is there any proved, recorded event of mutations that increased beneficial or useful genetic information?
Edited by jbozz21, : suggestions of Admin

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 04-20-2013 7:53 AM jbozz21 has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13017
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 2 of 4 (697002)
04-20-2013 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jbozz21
04-20-2013 3:59 AM


Hi JBozz, welcome to EvC Forum.
There's a few issues that need to be settled before we can promote your thread. First, this is highly controversial and could be a thread all by itself:
Macro evolution decreases the amount of genetic information available within a population and actually makes the population less able to adapt to changing circumstances because it does not have as much to go off of.
You later repeat this assertion in slightly different form:
Macro evolution only increases animal diversity but decreased genetic diversity within the populations.
I suggest you remove these assertions by editing your Message 1. If it becomes too big an issue during the discussion we can decide what to do then.
Second, I think if you read the reference you provided you'll see that this statement is inaccurate and needs to be fixed:
The average human has about 50 million to 250 million base pairs.
Page Not Found | ORNL
Third, you might have set your expectations a bit too high:
Is there any proof for Macro-evolution?
Nothing is ever proved in science. Given the tentative nature of all science, its capacity for revision in light of new information or improved thinking, it would be extremely inconvenient if anyone ever actually *proved* anything. The goal of science is evidence sufficient for formulating frameworks of understanding that we call theories.
As long as you understand that what you're really requesting is evidence, not proof, then we're good on this last issue.
If you address the first two issues then I'll promote your thread.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jbozz21, posted 04-20-2013 3:59 AM jbozz21 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jbozz21, posted 04-25-2013 12:50 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

jbozz21
Member (Idle past 4000 days)
Posts: 46
From: Provo, UT
Joined: 04-19-2013


Message 3 of 4 (697393)
04-25-2013 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
04-20-2013 7:53 AM


edit
Edited as per your request.

"all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and call things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planets which move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator." -Alma 30:44
"And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me, both things which are temporal, and things which are spiritual; things which are in the heavens above, and things which are on the earth, and things which are in the earth, and things which are under the earth, both above and beneath: all things bear record of me." Moses 6: 63

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 04-20-2013 7:53 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13017
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 4 (697418)
04-25-2013 8:32 AM


Thread Copied to Biological Evolution Forum
Thread copied to the Increases in Genetic Information thread in the Biological Evolution forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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