Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 57 (9175 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Neptune7
Post Volume: Total: 917,641 Year: 4,898/9,624 Month: 246/427 Week: 56/103 Day: 14/11 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Mesh Network - the internet of the future
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1 of 12 (737896)
10-01-2014 5:27 PM


there are now aps available for iOS devices (FireChat for iPhones and iPads) and Android devices (Open Garden for phones and tablets) that use bluetooth and the devices local wifi ability to connect directly between devices and form a local "mesh network"
This means device to device connection without going through cell towers or isp's, and multiple paths makes it faster than single source linking.
Because the mesh network is dispersed onto individual devices there is no control over use by companies or governments.
This is working in Hong Kong and linking the protesters together ...
free exchange of information ...
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by NoNukes, posted 10-01-2014 5:37 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 4 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2014 3:06 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 9 by Stile, posted 10-02-2014 9:33 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 12 (737899)
10-01-2014 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
10-01-2014 5:27 PM


free exchange of information
Yes it is free... up until a tank runs over your smart phone. The situation in Hong Kong has large potential to end badly. I surely hope not.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 10-01-2014 5:27 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 10-01-2014 5:49 PM NoNukes has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 3 of 12 (737900)
10-01-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by NoNukes
10-01-2014 5:37 PM


There is a corner of my house where wifi reception is bad and this provides connection for my tablet when my phone is downstairs where wifi reception is good (it would likely be better if I moved the router out of the basement and into the office).
Yes it is free... up until a tank runs over your smart phone.
Actually they would need to run over ALL the mesh-linked phones\tablets\laptops to shut it down. Losing a node does not cut off the linkage, unlike traditional lan and wan systems.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by NoNukes, posted 10-01-2014 5:37 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by NoNukes, posted 10-02-2014 7:49 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 4 of 12 (737906)
10-02-2014 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
10-01-2014 5:27 PM


The problem is range - bluetooth has a range of about 10m so it'll only be any use in a crowd and where a large proportion of people in the crowd have the app on and active. I'm guessing that it's also a security nightmare.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 10-01-2014 5:27 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2014 8:41 AM Tangle has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 12 (737911)
10-02-2014 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
10-01-2014 5:49 PM


Actually they would need to run over ALL the mesh-linked phones\tablets\laptops to shut it down.
Exactly. China has lots of tanks. The tank may be on top of your phone AND you. Others can still use the network to yell "Run!!".
Also jamming wifi and bluetooth is not really hi-tech.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 10-01-2014 5:49 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 6 of 12 (737915)
10-02-2014 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Tangle
10-02-2014 3:06 AM


We live in a crowd.
The problem is range - bluetooth has a range of about 10m so it'll only be any use in a crowd and where a large proportion of people in the crowd have the app on and active. ...
and the wifi range is ~30m, so yes you are dependent on "repeaters" ...
... but that is the point of it becoming the new type of internet, it is additional connectivity over what you now have, with multiple paths for data flow. Because we live in a crowd.
You can think of a town with open mesh networks to provide internet service for all the people in the town
... I'm guessing that it's also a security nightmare.
More than we currently have?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Tangle, posted 10-02-2014 3:06 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 10-02-2014 9:03 AM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34061
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 7 of 12 (737917)
10-02-2014 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
10-02-2014 8:41 AM


The advantage of unreliability
One of the basic concepts pretty much universal during the creation of the internet was unreliability. Applications and even the data packets themselves were built to work on unreliable mediums. Packets could take different paths and messages were broken up on creation and reassembled on receipt. Missing pieces were then requested from the sender to complete the message.
The mesh concept is simply an extension of that idea to include not just paths but also additional services, WiFi, Bluetooth, internet ...

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2014 8:41 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2014 9:09 AM jar has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1490 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 8 of 12 (737918)
10-02-2014 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
10-02-2014 9:03 AM


Re: The advantage of unreliability
The mesh concept is simply an extension of that idea to include not just paths but also additional services, WiFi, Bluetooth, internet ...
Exactly, and with even less reliance on central sources and hardware.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 10-02-2014 9:03 AM jar has not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 129 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 9 of 12 (737923)
10-02-2014 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
10-01-2014 5:27 PM


RAZD writes:
This means device to device connection without going through cell towers or isp's, and multiple paths makes it faster than single source linking.
What's the goal of this?
Device-to-device connectivity only? I don't see this as very useful. That is, you can't see the internet.
And if you use device-to-device-to-device-to-someone-with-an-internet-connection to use the internet... then doesn't that one person get charged a whole lot from the ISP's in order to supply data to all the others who are connected?
Or is the (theoretical) point to have everything connected so that the internet still exists but ISP's are not required?
-wouldn't this add a huge lag if the data you were connecting to had to hop over 100's of linked devices before getting to yours?
I just don't see the practical usage of it yet.
But, well, all I've done is read your post too... so I am also woefully ignorant of the possibilities...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 10-01-2014 5:27 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by NoNukes, posted 10-02-2014 9:51 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 11 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-02-2014 9:52 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied
 Message 12 by jar, posted 10-02-2014 9:56 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 12 (737925)
10-02-2014 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Stile
10-02-2014 9:33 AM


What's the goal of this?
It would be useful for coordinating an event and maybe for communicating with like minded people for a short time. More of a large intranet than an internet. Kinda like those adhoc networks people used to set up at colleges to share music.
But you have to assume that the government is listening in. That does place some limits on its usefulness. But even that can be overcome with some method of verification. The problem is to avoid making the added security another point of attack.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Stile, posted 10-02-2014 9:33 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 11 of 12 (737926)
10-02-2014 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Stile
10-02-2014 9:33 AM


What's the goal of this?
quote:
Fixing the mobile Internet. Together.
More than 5 million people use Open Garden today. By joining Open Garden, you are joining forces to make the Internet better, faster and more reliable — for everyone, including yourself. Open Garden allows all devices (including smart phones, tablets, laptops and wearables) to work together and find the best connections at any time. The more people use it, the better it gets.source
Device-to-device connectivity only? I don't see this as very useful. That is, you can't see the internet.
And if you use device-to-device-to-device-to-someone-with-an-internet-connection to use the internet... then doesn't that one person get charged a whole lot from the ISP's in order to supply data to all the others who are connected?
I don't know how the ISP things works, but don't look at it like a chain, look at it like a mesh.
There could be 10 devices with internet connections and then another 50 devices without an internet connection that are connected to the internet through the mesh network.
Or is the (theoretical) point to have everything connected so that the internet still exists but ISP's are not required?
-wouldn't this add a huge lag if the data you were connecting to had to hop over 100's of linked devices before getting to yours?
Perhaps, but with the mesh it is more likely that you only have to hop over 1 or 2 devices, not hundreds of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Stile, posted 10-02-2014 9:33 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34061
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 12 of 12 (737927)
10-02-2014 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Stile
10-02-2014 9:33 AM


the goal-- find path of shortest distance.
The goal is to add a layer on packets that determines shortest path to communicate. If you can reach a destination with Bluetooth use that path for these packets, if not Bluetooth check WiFi. If destination not available on WiFi then then use Internet.
In such a case a message to friends gets sent using Bluetooth to those immediately adjacent, WiFi to those slightly further away and packets sent over the Internet only for those not included in the first two groups.
It is another step toward ubiquitous connectivity.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Stile, posted 10-02-2014 9:33 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024