|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,772 Year: 4,029/9,624 Month: 900/974 Week: 227/286 Day: 34/109 Hour: 0/4 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Hitler, Evolution, and Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I've been thinking about this for awhile and am trying to get together some texts to consult.
The topic is the misuse of scientific ideas: In the first half of the 20th century, I maintain, there was significant and multifold misuse of scientific ideas in politics and morals. The scientific concept was lifted out of its scientific context and applied non-scientifically to other areas. I think one can see why this time period would be prone to such practice: (1) it was a time of profound scientific discoveries and (2)it was a time of precarious world politics. Put those 2 situations together and the misuse of science is likely. The philosophical question is, does such use of scientific ideas always lead to vicious systems? Is there such misuse today? The historical question is, is my above contention accurate? (this is similar to my "dangers of secularism" thread, but that topic suffered from vagueness. I am trying to be more precise). Let's take, for example, Hitler and Nazism:--was he mainly Christian, as some might maintain by quoting what appear to be Christian passages from his speeches, or mainly pseudo-Darwinian, as I maintain? And how much did his purported Christian belief or purported pseudo-Darwinian belief influence Nazism? Evidence: I maintain that Nazism had within it the idea of natural selection, lifted from Darwinism. from Mein Kampf: "Nature herself in times of great poverty or bad climatic conditions, as well as poor harvest, intervenes to restrict the increase of population of certain countries or races; this, to be sure, by a method as wise as it is ruthless. She diminishes, not the power of procreation as such, but the conservation of the procreated, by exposing them to hard trials and deprivations with the result that all those who are less strong and less healthy are forced back into the womb of the eternal unknown. Those whom she permits to survive the inclemency of existence are a thousandfold tested, hardened, and well adapted to procreate in turn, in order that the process of thoroughgoing selection may begin again from the beginning. By thus brutally proceeding against the individual and immediately calling him back to herself as soon as he shows himself unequal to the storm of life, she keeps the race and species strong, in fact, raises them to the highest accomplishments." (131) Here, I suggest, is the idea of natural selection. What's different is that Hitler is thinking in terms of races rather than species. In fact, Hitler uses the idea of "race" as though it meant "species." In his chapter on "Nation and Race," he tries to show that "racial purity" is natural, and therefore good: "The consequence of this racial purity, universally valid in Nature, is not only the sharp outward delimitation of the various races, but their uniform character in themselves. The fox is always a fox, the goose a goose, the tiger a tiger, etc . . ." (285) He seems to think the different "races" are like different species, with their own separate gene pool. This idea, I claim, is central, not peripheral, to Nazi dogma, and is a perversion of Darwinism. Work Cited: Mein Kampf, trans. Ralph Manheim, Houghton Mifflin, 1971 This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-03-2005 03:40 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-03-2005 03:46 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-03-2005 04:19 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-03-2005 04:21 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-03-2005 04:49 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-03-2005 06:40 PM This message has been edited by robinrohan, 06-04-2005 08:08 AM
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminJar Inactive Member |
but I do ask that you clarify my position. You state:
Nazism--was it mainly Christian, as Jar maintains, which is not my position. My position is that it misused sources, Christian, Pagan, Scientific and otherwise and so there is no connection to either Christianity or Evolution.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
So what you are maintaining is that Hitler was a
Christian, but not Nazism?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminJar Inactive Member |
No, my position is that any tool, invention, philosophy, religion, scientific discovery can and does get misused.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Well, I know you think that Hitler was a Christian, so I will re-phrase the OP. You can read it after I fix it, and make sure I have not distorted your view.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I changed it, and now I think it is accurate as regards your view.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13032 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
If Jar agrees it reflects his view then okay, but just looking at it myself it doesn't seem to agree at all. To me he appeared to be making a more subtle but much more important point.
I can't find a copy of Mein Kampf on line. If you have a copy, I've seen references on the web to pages 309-310 which seems to indicate that Hitler was a pretty strong supporter of Christianity, though neutral regarding Protestantism versus Catholicism. Anyway, why not just describe your point of view without using Jar's views as a foil.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminJar Inactive Member |
No it certainly doesn't reflect my views but go ahead and promote it if you think it's worthwhile.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I'm referring to Jar's idea in past posts, in which he CLEARLY says that Hitler was a Christian, as we all know. If Jar has changed his mind, then perhaps he will let me know.
However, I will adjust the post so that Jar is not mentioned.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I changed it. Jar is not mentioned.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13032 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
One more mod. You don't really have two different but related topics. What you have is a principle (misuse of scientific ideas) and an example (the Nazi's use of evolutionary principles to promote eugenic policies). If you can work it around into that form I'll release it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
OK, I changed it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Admin Director Posts: 13032 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Enjoy!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024