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Author Topic:   Religion - genuine belief or educated to believe
eightace148
Junior Member (Idle past 4179 days)
Posts: 2
From: Aberdeen Scotland
Joined: 05-17-2009


Message 1 of 33 (508963)
05-17-2009 4:48 PM


Simple question is a religious belief a choice or simply tought as the right thing to think.

if I am brought up as a chritian then i belive in cristianity, if iam brought up as a Hindu iam a Hindu.

If i am tought to think for myself but given the facts do i have religious faith at all?

My children are tought in a cristian school but given facts of many religions. but i dout they will become anything else that chritian if any.

But they belive what there teacher tells them as fact.


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Message 2 of 33 (509045)
05-18-2009 8:32 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 3 of 33 (509058)
05-18-2009 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by eightace148
05-17-2009 4:48 PM


Simple question is a religious belief a choice or simply tought as the right thing to think.

In my opinion, indoctrination. Most of my deist, agnostic and atheistic friends started out as fundimentalist Christians solely by being indoctrinated into the beliefs of the particular sect. In amy cases it took years for them to unindoctrinate themselves.

Edited by bluescat48, : typo


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
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Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 859 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 4 of 33 (509063)
05-18-2009 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by eightace148
05-17-2009 4:48 PM


While it is true that most people maintain the religion of their parents; it is not universally true. There are many people who come to a religion either from another relgion or from one of the various versions of unbelief later in life.

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Theodoric
Member (Idle past 73 days)
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 5 of 33 (509065)
05-18-2009 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dr Jack
05-18-2009 10:26 AM


quote:
While it is true that most people maintain the religion of their parents; it is not universally true. There are many people who come to a religion either from another relgion or from one of the various versions of unbelief later in life.

The first part of the statement is undoubtedly true. I would add the VAST majority maintain the religion of their parents. The second sentence I have trouble with. You seem to be mixing superlatives here. Most maintain their parents religion but many switch. First of all since the term many is subjective you aren't saying much. In my definition of many this is false. Many to me means a sizable amount of the total. Not necessarily majority but a substantial minority.

In the US I might agree with many. With a huge caveat. According to a USAToday article in 2008.

44% say they're no longer tied to the religious or secular upbringing of their childhood. They've changed religions or denominations, adopted a faith for the first time or abandoned any affiliation altogether.

I do not think you will see these figures hold true worldwide.

The caveat I have shows another problem with your statement. Though a % of people change religion in later life, do they really change religion? Yes I think you will see lots of people exchanging one version of christianity for another, I think a complete change of religion is quite reare. For example, a change from christianity to judaism, islam or hindu. How rare is must it be for a moslem or jew to become a christian.

The indoctrination holds on for the vast majority of people.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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eightace148
Junior Member (Idle past 4179 days)
Posts: 2
From: Aberdeen Scotland
Joined: 05-17-2009


Message 6 of 33 (509434)
05-21-2009 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Theodoric
05-18-2009 10:53 AM


I think you are right about some people changing from one brand of christianity to another and that it is rare for somone to have a complete switch to a very differant religion.
But if all beleifs where tought as a choice along with that of aithisum what would be the out come? A more vaireed mix of belifes? I feel that not many people actualy consider any other religion as corect. But why not? is one faith not as good as another? there are no Stone wall facts that will prove Jeusus or moses or any other religios figure existed, it all relys of faith. So my question stands is beleif just taught?
I was taught as a chtirtian and I have many freinds of differant and veried faiths, yet I am an aithius but only because none of them have put forward a feisable case. please exuse my spelling I am more of a numbers man.

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Peg
Member (Idle past 3683 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 7 of 33 (509468)
05-22-2009 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by eightace148
05-21-2009 5:55 PM


eightace148 writes:

But if all beleifs where tought as a choice along with that of aithisum what would be the out come? A more vaireed mix of belifes? I feel that not many people actualy consider any other religion as corect. But why not? is one faith not as good as another?

frankly, no

any old teaching is not as good as any other teaching. Teachings, especially religious teachings, should be studied hard before they are accepted.

They are not all the same and they do not all inspire faith.


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Theodoric
Member (Idle past 73 days)
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 8 of 33 (509514)
05-22-2009 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Peg
05-22-2009 12:22 AM


quote:
and they do not all inspire faith.

Ummmm, yeah they do. That is why they are RELIGIONS. Just religions other than yours do not inspire faith in you, does not mean others are do not inspired faith for them.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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Lokins
Junior Member (Idle past 3845 days)
Posts: 23
From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Joined: 05-28-2009


Message 9 of 33 (510208)
05-28-2009 9:43 PM


Simple question is a religious belief a choice or simply tought as the right thing to think.

if I am brought up as a chritian then i belive in cristianity, if iam brought up as a Hindu iam a Hindu.

If i am tought to think for myself but given the facts do i have religious faith at all?

My children are tought in a cristian school but given facts of many religions. but i dout they will become anything else that chritian if any.

But they belive what there teacher tells them as fact.

This is exactly why I think that teaching faith of any kind should not be allowed in schools. What makes one faith more worthy to be taught than another? It's ridiculous to suggest that we should teach both evolution and creationism in schools, and let them decide for themselves. A creationist education would, in most cases, be Christian, at least in the continent of America. What makes Christianity so special that it deserves to be taught over any other religion?

(Not that I think teaching any religion is justified.)


  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 10 of 33 (510261)
05-29-2009 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Peg
05-22-2009 12:22 AM


Peg writes:

any old teaching is not as good as any other teaching. Teachings, especially religious teachings, should be studied hard before they are accepted.

They are not all the same and they do not all inspire faith.

So who decides which are inspired and which are crap?


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Peg, posted 05-22-2009 12:22 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 05-29-2009 11:53 AM bluescat48 has responded
 Message 17 by Peg, posted 06-01-2009 11:55 PM bluescat48 has responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 2045 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 11 of 33 (510268)
05-29-2009 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by bluescat48
05-29-2009 10:35 AM


bluescat48 writes:

So who decides which are inspired and which are crap?


*Blink* You did not just say that did you? Of course the people who have accepted jesus christ as their savior decide which is inspired and which are crap.

Bill Maher once put it best. You can worship any religion you want as long as you accept jesus christ as your personal savior.

Anyway, back to the subject. There is a world of difference between education and indoctrination. I don't understand why people keep insisting they are the same.

I'm not going to insult everyone's intelligence by explaining the differences. If you don't already know the differences, you're not worth talking to. I'd only like to point out that the goal of education is to expand one's mind's horizons while the goal of indoctrination is to either contract one's mind's horizons or at least to prevent any further expansion along that line.

If you want a good example of this, all you have to do is look at how creationists perceive any new info we throw at them.


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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2943 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 12 of 33 (510269)
05-29-2009 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Taz
05-29-2009 11:53 AM


Taz writes:

You did not just say that did you? Of course the people who have accepted jesus christ as their savior decide which is inspired and which are crap.

Of course I know that but I wanted an opinion from the other side.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 05-29-2009 11:53 AM Taz has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4022
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 13 of 33 (510292)
05-29-2009 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by eightace148
05-17-2009 4:48 PM


Bible vs. Honest Reality
eightace148 writes:

Is a religious belief a choice or simply tought as the right thing to think?

That entirely depends on what you think is right.

If you think that the Bible contains the most important values for discovering new ideas, then I would guess that you would think that religious belief is simply the right thing to think, all the time.

If you think that truth and honesty are the most important values when discoverying new ideas... then you would likely think that religious belief is a choice that is sometimes indoctrinated from adults onto their children.

What's a higher priority? The Bible or truth and honesty?


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Perdition
Member (Idle past 1992 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 14 of 33 (510294)
05-29-2009 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Stile
05-29-2009 3:25 PM


Re: Bible vs. Honest Reality
If you think that the Bible contains the most important values for discovering new ideas, then I would guess that you would think that religious belief is simply the right thing to think, all the time.

I think that's restating the whole question in the OP. Would one believe the Bible contains the most important values if one hadn't been taught that from the beginning? If some person who had never been influenced by Christianity, Judaism or Islam picked up the Bible and read through it, would they think it was a book of the most important values? Do you have to have the possibility implanted in your mind in order for it to flourish, or can it grow if left to its own devices?


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Stile
Member
Posts: 4022
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 15 of 33 (510482)
05-31-2009 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Perdition
05-29-2009 3:34 PM


Re: Bible vs. Honest Reality
Perdition writes:

Would one believe the Bible contains the most important values if one hadn't been taught that from the beginning?

There are a lot of people in this world. I'd be surprised if "being taught that from the beginning" was the only way to come to believe that the Bible contains the most important values.


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