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Author Topic:   Cryptozoology
NimLore
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 24 (21389)
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


I am wondering what positive feedback anyone has on this subject..

Do you believe that dinosaurs or other creatures that should be extinct are still alive?
What evidence do you have to support this?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nos482, posted 11-02-2002 5:20 PM NimLore has not yet responded
 Message 3 by TrueCreation, posted 11-02-2002 6:45 PM NimLore has not yet responded
 Message 4 by nator, posted 11-03-2002 11:03 PM NimLore has not yet responded
 Message 5 by Quetzal, posted 11-04-2002 1:32 AM NimLore has not yet responded
 Message 7 by Brad McFall, posted 11-18-2002 1:31 PM NimLore has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Quetzal, posted 12-06-2002 10:22 AM NimLore has not yet responded
 Message 13 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 10:53 AM NimLore has not yet responded

nos482
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 24 (21398)
11-02-2002 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


quote:
Originally posted by NimLore:
I am wondering what positive feedback anyone has on this subject..

Do you believe that dinosaurs or other creatures that should be extinct are still alive?
What evidence do you have to support this?


We only know of around 10% of all life on this planet so it is possible that some animals which may have been thought to be extinct may still be around, but in the case of most dinosaurs that is not to likely concidering their size and habits.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 24 (21424)
11-02-2002 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


"I am wondering what positive feedback anyone has on this subject..

Do you believe that dinosaurs or other creatures that should be extinct are still alive?"
--Nope, dead buried & permineralized, unless you'd like to inquire on my incite with more specifics, that would be of more help.

------------------


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

nator
Member (Idle past 619 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 4 of 24 (21481)
11-03-2002 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


quote:
Originally posted by NimLore:
I am wondering what positive feedback anyone has on this subject..

Do you believe that dinosaurs or other creatures that should be extinct are still alive?
What evidence do you have to support this?


Well, it is certainly possible that some species which have been believed to have recently gone extinct could be hanging on somewhere, particularly if their habitats were very wild or remote and not very-well explored.

For instance, the coelocanth and the giant squid both were thought to be legend or extinct until actual remains were collected.

However, if you are talking about finding a T-Rex or a Neanderthal living today, there is no evidence to suggest that we have or would likely do so.

Sorry, but science operates on evidence.

A short, but informative entry from the Skeptic's Dictionary:

http://www.skepdic.com/crypto.html

"cryptozoology

Cryptozoology is, literally, the study of hidden animals. It is the study of such creatures as the Australian bunyips, Bigfoot, the chupacabra, and the Loch Ness monster. It is not a recognized branch of the science of zoology.

Cryptozoology relies heavily upon testimonials and circumstantial evidence in the form of legends and folklore, and the stories and alleged sightings of mysterious beasts by indigenous peoples, explorers, and travelers. Since cryptozoologists spend most of their energy trying to establish the existence of creatures, rather than examining actual animals, they are more akin to psi researchers than to zoologists. Expertise in zoology, however, is asserted to be a necessity for work in cryptozoology, according to Dr. Bernard Heuvelmans, who coined the term to describe his investigations of animals unknown to science."


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4321 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 5 of 24 (21483)
11-04-2002 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


quote:
Originally posted by NimLore:
I am wondering what positive feedback anyone has on this subject..

Do you believe that dinosaurs or other creatures that should be extinct are still alive?
What evidence do you have to support this?


Hi Nim,

I concur with what Schraf said, with one clarification. She mentioned that "Well, it is certainly possible that some species which have been believed to have recently gone extinct could be hanging on somewhere, particularly if their habitats were very wild or remote and not very-well explored." Recently may not necessarily be accurate, unless you consider "recently" to be equal to "within the last 100 million years". Basically, all that is required is for a relictual population of some organism to find a nice, quiet place where they can remain relatively unseen until someone stumbles across them. There are a LOT of organisms alive today that have no recent fossil ancestry for instance, principally because of the gappiness of the fossil record, so finding something that was thought to be extinct a long time ago isn't all that difficult. In addition, 3/4ths of the planet is virtually unexplored, leaving a lot of territory for remnants to hide out in - witness the coelocanth, among others. Finally, at a rough estimate, a dozen new species (especially arthropods) are being discovered every year; about once a decade (at least for the last 100 years) someone finds a representative of a new phylum! This is one of the things that makes biology so exciting: take a walk through undisturbed cloud forest, and whether you know it or not, you're likely to encounter at least one species of something that is undocumented, unregistered, or completely unknown on any given day.

I would, however, be cautious about accepting journalists' claims of "living fossils", etc. That designation might sell papers, but is basically meaningless. Which brings me to your original question. "Cryptozoology", in the sense of "finding a living brachiosaur" or something like bigfoot, etc, is highly unlikely on land - we do know most of the out of the way corners well enough that some evidence would have been forthcoming for a species of megafauna. A new small primate, a new species of deer, a tree species that was thought extinct, etc might quite easily be hidden out. A chupacabra that preys on humans or people's livestock OTOH, because it is in contact with man (if you believe the stories), is VERY unlikely. And of course, the oceans may hide quite a few things like the coelocanth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-04-2002 4:55 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 24 (21498)
11-04-2002 4:55 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Quetzal
11-04-2002 1:32 AM


try being an insect taxonomist. It's a whole world of cryptozoology out there... 1 million species and more awaits...

[still looking for new termites]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Quetzal, posted 11-04-2002 1:32 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 3482 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 7 of 24 (23106)
11-18-2002 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


This is the notion of a "living" relic and we would need to know how to change any transitive histogenic series into a chemical equillibrium that without the congo dino being simply a double signification of apoda we can not know?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4321 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 8 of 24 (25727)
12-06-2002 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


It is a sad, sad day for cryptozoologists everywhere. The great Ray Wallace, originator and prime contractor for the 45-year-long Bigfoot hoax has died. His family now reveals the truth: the whole thing was a put up. Here's his tell-all obituary. Ah well, there's always the movie rights...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 10-23-2003 10:25 PM Quetzal has responded

Thanos6
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 24 (62455)
10-23-2003 10:14 PM


I don't think that most such critters exist, based on the evidence I've seen...shame. It'd be a cooler world if they did.

crashfrog
Member
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 10 of 24 (62463)
10-23-2003 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Quetzal
12-06-2002 10:22 AM


I think this should be a lesson about trying to infer the existence of things from inanimate objects. Only presence can be inferred, not existence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Quetzal, posted 12-06-2002 10:22 AM Quetzal has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Quetzal, posted 10-24-2003 1:58 AM crashfrog has responded

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 4321 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 11 of 24 (62507)
10-24-2003 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
10-23-2003 10:25 PM


Hey Crash.

I'm not sure how to respond to this, primarily because I'm not sure what you're saying (I think the phrasing might be confusing). After all, we infer the existence of many things from inanimate objects. Stonehenge being an example. Firepits in caves are another. Sometimes we can't really tell whether what we're looking at belongs to the class of "formerly animate or caused by animate" things vs "wholly deterministic or inanimate". For how many centuries did people think fossils were just really weird rocks?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 10-23-2003 10:25 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 10-26-2003 6:00 PM Quetzal has not yet responded

crashfrog
Member
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 24 (62951)
10-26-2003 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Quetzal
10-24-2003 1:58 AM


After all, we infer the existence of many things from inanimate objects. Stonehenge being an example.

I guess what I'm saying is, the existence of Stonehenge would not be sufficient on its own for some alien biologist to infer the existence of the human species. We can infer that humans built it, because we have independant evidence for the existence of humans - i.e. we are them. Stonehenge is sufficient to infer the presence of humans near Salisbury, England, but not the existence of the whole human race in total. Similarly trying to infer the existence of god from what might be termed his "creation" is fallacious. However if we could independantly infer the existence of God through other means - direct observation, for instance - then the presence of God could be inferred from his creation.

In short the only reason that we infer Mount Rushmore was carved by humans is because we know independantly that humans exist, and that we carve.

[This message has been edited by crashfrog, 10-26-2003]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Quetzal, posted 10-24-2003 1:58 AM Quetzal has not yet responded

CreationMan
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 24 (84998)
02-10-2004 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by NimLore
11-02-2002 4:51 PM


Dinos
Actually Scientifically, unless scientists could look over ever inch of the earth at the same time and see that no dinos exist, only then could we say that they are "extinct" but it is because of evolutionary ideas that we are lead to believe that they don't exist.

Actually there are reports of "dragons" and dinosaur like creatures in the Congo that sound very much like triceratops. Keep an open mind and let the Scriptures be your guide.

Think about this...were dinosaurs taken on Noah's Ark??


"The Fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God'"

Mario (Creation Man)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by NimLore, posted 11-02-2002 4:51 PM NimLore has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 10:56 AM CreationMan has not yet responded
 Message 16 by NosyNed, posted 02-10-2004 11:14 AM CreationMan has not yet responded
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 02-10-2004 11:37 AM CreationMan has responded

CreationMan
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 24 (85000)
02-10-2004 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by CreationMan
02-10-2004 10:53 AM


I am wondering what positive feedback anyone has on this subject..
Actually there is a plant alive and growing well in Australia that is supposed to be extinct.....for 65 million years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 10:53 AM CreationMan has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by NosyNed, posted 02-10-2004 11:11 AM CreationMan has responded

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8901
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 15 of 24 (85007)
02-10-2004 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by CreationMan
02-10-2004 10:56 AM


65 million years..
References please. I would be surprised if the exact same species is there.

I think you are referring to a type of tree discovered a few years ago in Australia. I don't think it is the same species but don't actually know.

It is neat isn't it though? It's why I have a cycad in the house.

And is there a point to it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 10:56 AM CreationMan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by CreationMan, posted 02-10-2004 1:56 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

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