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Author Topic:   Does the Errancy of Fundamentalism Disprove the God of the Bible?
DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006


Message 1 of 7 (281349)
01-24-2006 8:22 PM


Personal Information: Niclas Berggren, born in 1968, holds a Ph.D. in economics and resides in Stockholm, Sweden. At the age of 16, independent of his non-believing parents, he decided to become a born-again Christian and joined the Pentecostal Church (doctrinally close to the Assemblies of God in the U.S.). He remained an earnest, active member - which included bible studies, evangelisation, prayer, speaking in tongues, etc. - until 1994, when he began to question the rationale for believing in the god of the Bible. In 1996, he left his Church after having become an atheist through careful Bible study and rational reasoning. Some of the basis for this radical, albeit calm and gradual, change is presented in this essay.
1. Introduction
This essay will investigate the often-made claim from Christians, that the Bible is the inspired word of god, a corollary of which is that it is perfectly without error. This view is exemplified by the following statement of Jimmy Swaggart, a Pentecostal pastor: "One of the most basic tenants of the Christian faith is that the Scriptures are inerrant. Because the Bible is God's Word, it is entirely error-free." (Swaggart, 1987, p. 8) [1] It will be argued that this view - which will be referred to as Fundamentalism - is the only possible logical view of the Bible for a Christian, but that it is incorrect and, therefore, that the Christian god[2] does not exist. More formally, the argument of this essay can be expressed in the following manner:
1. If the Christian god (as defined in footnote [2]) exists, there is a being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good.
2. If there is a being who is omnipotent, omniscient, and perfectly good, his revelation is error-free, unambiguously clear, and objectively verifiable as true.
3. The Bible is neither error-free, unambiguously clear, nor objectively verifiable.
C. The Christian god does not exist.
We shall begin by examining the nature of this god and what implications it has for our analysis of the Bible.
Konsumtentrd inom frskringar, ln, privatekonomi och teknik Vra guider gr dina val som konsument enklare. ‘ P ntet sedan 1995.
If errors can be shown to exist in the Bible, as Berggren asserts, does it then follow that God, at least as an omnipotent Supreme Being, cannot exist?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 01-25-2006 12:46 PM DeclinetoState has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 7 (281511)
01-25-2006 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DeclinetoState
01-24-2006 8:22 PM


Comments
Mr. Berggren's essay is interesting, but on this board we prefer that the poster make their argument in their own words and use links as supporting references.
You have not provided your point of view, only a question.
You also have an active topic that you haven't participated in since it opened. Matthew 27:9: Quoted from Jeremiah?
I am not inclined to promote this topic unless you can present an argument from your own point of view.
Please respond by 29 Jan or this request will be closed, unless another Admin decides otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DeclinetoState, posted 01-24-2006 8:22 PM DeclinetoState has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by DeclinetoState, posted 01-26-2006 7:25 PM AdminPD has replied

DeclinetoState
Member (Idle past 6466 days)
Posts: 158
Joined: 01-16-2006


Message 3 of 7 (281826)
01-26-2006 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
01-25-2006 12:46 PM


Re: Comments
You have not provided your point of view, only a question.
That is not true. A point of view is implied in the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 01-25-2006 12:46 PM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 01-26-2006 8:16 PM DeclinetoState has not replied
 Message 5 by AdminPhat, posted 01-29-2006 3:46 AM DeclinetoState has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 7 (281834)
01-26-2006 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by DeclinetoState
01-26-2006 7:25 PM


Re: Comments
Sorry, I don't see it. Again we prefer the poster to present their argument in their own words.
I'm still not inclined to promote this topic as written and since you are new to EvC, I'd rather see how your first topic progresses.
This topic will be closed on 29 Jan unless another Admin takes up your cause.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by DeclinetoState, posted 01-26-2006 7:25 PM DeclinetoState has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 7 (282272)
01-29-2006 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by DeclinetoState
01-26-2006 7:25 PM


You have a callback
Hello, DeclinetoState, and welcome to EvC! I'll give you a couple of more days to edit your opening post and start a topic, if you want.
Think of it like this: You wish to engage someone in a conversation, right? Lay out your personal point of view, THEN provide a link or two....then decide which forum you want to focus on and let me know.
Say by the first of Feb?


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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by DeclinetoState, posted 01-26-2006 7:25 PM DeclinetoState has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 6 by DeclinetoState, posted 01-30-2006 12:04 AM AdminPhat has not replied

    DeclinetoState
    Member (Idle past 6466 days)
    Posts: 158
    Joined: 01-16-2006


    Message 6 of 7 (282449)
    01-30-2006 12:04 AM
    Reply to: Message 5 by AdminPhat
    01-29-2006 3:46 AM


    Re: You have a callback
    I do not intend to "edit" my opening post. I will add this comment, however: I think that Berggren engages in some leaps of logic, to wit:
    If God exists, and God is perfect, then everything He has created must be perfect.
    The Bible, among other things, is not perfect.
    Therefore, God does not exist.
    Some fundamentalists accept the first premise but not the second (they assert the Bible is perfect).
    A couple of points must be kept in mind:
    1. If everything in the universe were perfect, the Bible would not be necessary, since it begins (almost) with the story of how sin came into the world in the Garden of Eden.
    2. It could thus be argued that if the Bible were perfect, it would disprove itself, since it would not be an example of the imperfection that has befallen the universe.
    I think No. 1 is certainly defensible, but I think No. 2 is a leap of logic neither I nor anyone else that I know would take. Nonetheless, it still seems possible.
    Think of it like this: You wish to engage someone in a conversation, right? Lay out your personal point of view, THEN provide a link or two....then decide which forum you want to focus on and let me know.
    I do not have a strongly held personal point of view on this issue; indeed, I don't really have a point of view at all. If I did, I wouldn't have bothered posting here.
    My point in posting here it to develop a point of view, specifically, to see if there is one that is in any way defensible. Right now, I'm not sure there is one.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by AdminPhat, posted 01-29-2006 3:46 AM AdminPhat has not replied

    AdminPD
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 7 of 7 (282485)
    01-30-2006 6:47 AM


    Thread copied to the Does the Errancy of Fundamentalism Disprove the God of the Bible? thread in the The Bible: Accuracy and Inerrancy forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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