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Author Topic:   Hi !
Wise
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 301 (54664)
09-10-2003 12:15 AM


Hey, NO-ONE EVER told me there was a "free for all" here !
I done GAVE up on this forum.
I will take it that there is NO inteference from the moderators?
Or is there?
I still wanted to take up issue with Iwinkisis , who thought that one day man will learn EVERYTHING in the universe.
Where is she?
Wise

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Yaro, posted 09-10-2003 12:36 AM Wise has not replied
 Message 4 by John, posted 09-10-2003 12:44 AM Wise has not replied
 Message 5 by Wounded King, posted 09-10-2003 6:57 AM Wise has not replied

Yaro
Member (Idle past 6576 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 2 of 301 (54667)
09-10-2003 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wise
09-10-2003 12:15 AM


No one ever said that. She mearly pointed out the fact that you, nor anybody, knows the limitations of human knowledge. We may very well be capable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 12:15 AM Wise has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2003 12:40 AM Yaro has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1547 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 3 of 301 (54668)
09-10-2003 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Yaro
09-10-2003 12:36 AM


Yeah, it's pretty hard to figure out what we can't know. After all, a current lack of knowledge is not indicative of a permanent lack of knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Yaro, posted 09-10-2003 12:36 AM Yaro has not replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 301 (54670)
09-10-2003 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wise
09-10-2003 12:15 AM


quote:
I will take it that there is NO inteference from the moderators?
I think Admin might get involved if there were, say, copyright violations, or something similar which might get the site in trouble...
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 12:15 AM Wise has not replied

Wounded King
Member (Idle past 112 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 5 of 301 (54713)
09-10-2003 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Wise
09-10-2003 12:15 AM


Havw you read John Barrows' book 'Impossibility : The Limits of Science and the Science of Limits'. It discusses the question of whether it is even theoretically possible, let alone practically, for man to know everything about the universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 12:15 AM Wise has not replied

Wise
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 301 (54723)
09-10-2003 8:34 AM


YARO---No one ever said that. She mearly pointed out the fact that you, nor anybody, knows the limitations of human knowledge. We may very well be capable.
Wise---Sure she said it.
She said that man will one day enter blackholes and stand upon distant planets and know everything in the universe.
My guess is that she reads an awful lot of SciFi.
I wanted to let her know that it
"Ain't gonna happen"...Impossible.
Now, I would like her to explain herself further.
Oh, and Yaro, just to let you know a little secret....MAN WILL NEVER BE CAPABLE...because we do not have the ability nor the brain capacity. I mean, do you think we will stand upon the gazillion of planets in the universe and study them?
Wise
[This message has been edited by Wise, 09-10-2003]

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 8:50 AM Wise has replied

Wise
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 301 (54724)
09-10-2003 8:41 AM


John----I think Admin might get involved if there were, say, copyright violations, or something similar which might get the site in trouble...
Wise---No worry.
I do not violate copyright laws but I DO have some pics.
Wise

Wise
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 301 (54726)
09-10-2003 8:48 AM


Crashfrog---Yeah, it's pretty hard to figure out what we can't know. After all, a current lack of knowledge is not indicative of a permanent lack of knowledge.
Wise---Not hard at all. I GUARANTEE that you will not know ANYTHING about the gazillion of planets out there other than that they exist, or a few teeni-tiny tidbits of info, IF THAT.
So yes, it IS a permanent lack of knowledge.
My point is this...
If man cannot, nor will he EVER understand everything in the Universe, then how can he EVER understand its creation, or the fact that there is a god?
I mean, if you cannot understand what is before you, how can you understand its creation? or creator?
Wise

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 8:58 AM Wise has replied
 Message 17 by crashfrog, posted 09-10-2003 9:28 AM Wise has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 9 of 301 (54727)
09-10-2003 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Wise
09-10-2003 8:34 AM


Just to be clarify: Yaro may believe that, but it certainly not a view held by all Atheists. Nor does the existence of limits on our knowledge provide any evidence for god, or imply that any particular piece of knowledge is beyond us.
And, please, please, learn to use the 'Reply To' button at the bottom of each message, rather than use the generic 'Post Reply' button at the bottom of the topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 8:34 AM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 9:01 AM Dr Jack has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 10 of 301 (54728)
09-10-2003 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Wise
09-10-2003 8:48 AM


Not hard at all. I GUARANTEE that you will not know ANYTHING about the gazillion of planets out there other than that they exist, or a few teeni-tiny tidbits of info, IF THAT.
True
So yes, it IS a permanent lack of knowledge.
True
If man cannot, nor will he EVER understand everything in the Universe, then how can he EVER understand its creation, or the fact that there is a god?
Unsupported assertion, there is no reason to suppose that we need to know everthing about the universe in order to understand its creation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 8:48 AM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 9:09 AM Dr Jack has replied

Wise
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 301 (54729)
09-10-2003 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Jack
09-10-2003 8:50 AM


Wise---If one cannot know all {knowledge limitations)then how can one ever enter into the dimension of the unknown, where a god would reside?
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 8:50 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 9:05 AM Wise has replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 12 of 301 (54730)
09-10-2003 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Wise
09-10-2003 9:01 AM


If one cannot know all {knowledge limitations)then how can one ever enter into the dimension of the unknown, where a god would reside?
Huh? What dimension of the unknown would that be then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 9:01 AM Wise has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 9:19 AM Dr Jack has replied

Wise
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 301 (54731)
09-10-2003 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dr Jack
09-10-2003 8:58 AM


Unsupported assertion, there is no reason to suppose that we need to know everthing about the universe in order to understand its creation.
You HAVE to understand the BASICS BEFORE you can understand the full picture.
Otherwise you enter into a "guess zone".
And guess zones don't cut it.
God is a guess zone to an atheist. He cannot understand him so he makes guesses.
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 8:58 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 9:15 AM Wise has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 14 of 301 (54733)
09-10-2003 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Wise
09-10-2003 9:09 AM


You HAVE to understand the BASICS BEFORE you can understand the full picture.
Quite right. Now explain why I have to know where a particular grain of dust on some far distant planet is before I can know any relevant basics. Understanding the principles behind something does not require us to know the state of everything before or after the event, only those parts relevant to the question in hand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Wise, posted 09-10-2003 9:09 AM Wise has not replied

Wise
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 301 (54734)
09-10-2003 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Jack
09-10-2003 9:05 AM


Huh? What dimension of the unknown would that be then?
The unseen.
God has been described as being an "extradimensional god". There are known to be 10-11 dimensions of time /space. If a god exists within these dimensions he certainly cannot be seen. From these dimensions the earth could certainly appear very differently.
The Biblical FACT of the earth having "pillars" and "foundations" could certainly be real if seen from these other dimensions.
But the BASICS must be understood FIRST and we will NEVER be able to understand the basics with our limited knowledge so we can NEVER really understand a god who created it.
To an atheist, god is simply too "deep"
Wise

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 9:05 AM Dr Jack has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Dr Jack, posted 09-10-2003 9:22 AM Wise has replied
 Message 18 by Dan Carroll, posted 09-10-2003 10:24 AM Wise has replied

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