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Author Topic:   former speed of light
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 230 (118150)
06-24-2004 2:36 AM


One possibility I have been considering is that there was a seperation somewhere around creation time, of the physical and spiritual universes. Before the seperation, the 'light' would have travelled without the limit of our physical universe limitations. The result would have been that it would have taken the spiritual light virtually no time hardly at all to get to the great distances that the stars are away! Only after our universe was seperated would our physical light take great time to get places. Does anyone have any good reason why this may not have been so?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by wj, posted 06-24-2004 3:25 AM simple has replied
 Message 20 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-24-2004 12:46 PM simple has replied
 Message 25 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-24-2004 2:06 PM simple has replied
 Message 31 by jar, posted 06-24-2004 3:38 PM simple has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 230 (118153)
06-24-2004 2:49 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 230 (118154)
06-24-2004 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by simple
06-24-2004 2:36 AM


Onus of proof
Arky, as you are making the assertion, the onus is on you to provide a good reason why anyone should consider this fantastic scenario. Perhaps you could start by providing evidence for the existence of a spiritual universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 2:36 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 3:35 AM wj has not replied
 Message 5 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 3:36 AM wj has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 230 (118156)
06-24-2004 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by wj
06-24-2004 3:25 AM


Re: Onus of proof
Well, wj, Since they put this in the faith and belief section, I could give some good reasons in this department. I'm glad you simply tried to deflect the whole question in this fashion, as it tells me you can't step up to the plate, and give some sound reason. Hey Ned, stick this where you want, but I'd bet neither can you! Ha. Go ahead, make my day. I dare you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by wj, posted 06-24-2004 3:25 AM wj has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by coffee_addict, posted 06-24-2004 3:52 AM simple has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 230 (118157)
06-24-2004 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by wj
06-24-2004 3:25 AM


Re: Onus of proof
Well, wj, Since they put this in the faith and belief section, I could give some good reasons in this department. I'm glad you simply tried to deflect the whole question in this fashion, as it tells me you can't step up to the plate, and give some sound reason. Hey Ned, stick this where you want, but I'd bet neither can you! Ha. Go ahead, make my day. I dare you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by wj, posted 06-24-2004 3:25 AM wj has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by wj, posted 06-24-2004 3:42 AM simple has replied

  
wj
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 230 (118159)
06-24-2004 3:42 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by simple
06-24-2004 3:36 AM


Re: Onus of proof
eer, Arky, repetition does not make an assertion any more valid.
Perhaps, based on your logic, I can simply rebut your assertion about spiritual universes and changing speed of light by simply asserting that I don't believe in such things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 3:36 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 3:51 AM wj has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 230 (118160)
06-24-2004 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by wj
06-24-2004 3:42 AM


Is it really so easy?
You don't have to believe in such things! Any reason why I don't either? Why not fess up and admit you can not come up with anything on this matter of the spiritual universe, and it's light? Either that or come up with a reason it just ain't so! I guess I was giving too much credit to people like Abby, who tried to actually raise a peep against such a concept in a scientific sounding fashion. Is it really this easy to utterly crush cosmological Christless conjecturing?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by wj, posted 06-24-2004 3:42 AM wj has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 4:00 AM simple has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 8 of 230 (118162)
06-24-2004 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by simple
06-24-2004 3:35 AM


Re: Onus of proof
arkie writes:
Since they put this in the faith and belief section...
I have faith that the spiritual universe does not exist at all.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 3:35 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:23 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17815
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 9 of 230 (118164)
06-24-2004 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by simple
06-24-2004 3:51 AM


Re: Is it really so easy?
What are you asking for ? Is it evidence or is it all right to just make things up as you are doing ?
If you want evidence then I guess that you are either going to have to explain your speculations to the point where someone else is in a position to make testable distinctions that distinguish your ideas from those within current science.
Until your idea IS scientific, then expecting scientific answers is unreasonable. If you want people to take your crazy ideas seriously you need to go beyond dreaming up crazy ideas. Dreaming up crzy ideas is just too easy. Are you prepared to do the work to go beyond that and make your ideas scientific ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 3:51 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:12 AM PaulK has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 230 (118170)
06-24-2004 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by PaulK
06-24-2004 4:00 AM


Re: Is it really so easy?
quote:
If you want people to take your crazy ideas seriously you need to go beyond dreaming up crazy ideas
Why is it a crazy idea? Do you have some reason to say that? Is it just that you think the spiritual is crazy? Do you know something about light that says this could not be? What about the light at the end of the tunnel so many people see in a near death experience? Do you think that light moves at the speed of light we are familiar with? Or is it just that you think the whole spirit world is crazy? After all, the bacteria that many think we came from in some primordal soup was very different from a human, much the same way as the spiritual is different from the physical. Is one scientific because you believe it?
{Fixed quote box - AM}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 06-24-2004 12:59 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 4:00 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 4:22 AM simple has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17815
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 11 of 230 (118171)
06-24-2004 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by simple
06-24-2004 4:12 AM


Re: Is it really so easy?
I say that your ideas are crazy because they're just wild ideas that you seem to have made up on the spot with no real basis in reality.
If you believe that the "light" experience in NDE's is physical light form some other "dimension" (in a New-age sense of "dimension" divorced from scientific use of the word) then you need to actually produce some sort of evidence (if it IS physical light then it ought to be shining into the subject's eyes - done any tests on that ?)
The idea that humans evolved from creatures we classify as bacteria is founded on many long years of scientific study. It is scientific because peopel actually DID do the work you refuse to do. And because bacteria are NOT radically different in the same way your "spirit" world is. A eukaryotic bactrium has a lot in common with a human cell. And that is just one piece of the evidence that links them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:12 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:33 AM PaulK has replied
 Message 14 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:44 AM PaulK has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 230 (118172)
06-24-2004 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by coffee_addict
06-24-2004 3:52 AM


Oh really?
quote:
I have faith that the spiritual universe does not exist at all.
Then there are no ghosts, angels, God, miracles, prophesy, esp, life after life, heaven, healing, prayer results, etc? The only plane that exists, do you contend, then is the physical world we can see and touch? Do you also have 'faith' that we share the same ancestors as cockcroaches?
{Fixed quote box - AM}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 06-24-2004 01:00 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by coffee_addict, posted 06-24-2004 3:52 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by coffee_addict, posted 06-24-2004 4:57 AM simple has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 230 (118174)
06-24-2004 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
06-24-2004 4:22 AM


Re: Is it really so easy?
quote:
I say that your ideas are crazy because they're just wild ideas that you seem to have made up on the spot
Well, "seem to" may be your impression, but it is more deep rooted than that. But, rather than get into a big thing about how well founded such ideas might be, what I am looking for is some educated person to clearly propose to us reasons why it is impossible. Could there be, say a reason light could not possibly be just a leftover product of a merged spiritual-physical universe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 4:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 6:38 AM simple has replied
 Message 19 by sidelined, posted 06-24-2004 8:29 AM simple has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 230 (118178)
06-24-2004 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
06-24-2004 4:22 AM


germs on toilet
quote:
If you believe that the "light" experience in NDE's is physical light form some other "dimension" (in a New-age sense of "dimension" divorced from scientific use of the word)
What are you talking about? NDE? I don't think I talked about NDEs! (whatever they are) Neither about light shining now that we can see from some outer limits!? The point was that our present limitations of light were not in effect if the spiritual universe was merged. My question to you is do you have some reason why this could not have been?
quote:
And because bacteria are NOT radically different in the same way your "spirit" world is.
So I am so very different from an angel than I am from some germs on the toilet? I propose that to say so is very one dimensional!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 4:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by PaulK, posted 06-24-2004 6:41 AM simple has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 467 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 15 of 230 (118182)
06-24-2004 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by simple
06-24-2004 4:23 AM


Re: Oh really?
arkathon writes:
Then there are no ghosts, angels, God, miracles, prophesy, esp, life after life, heaven, healing, prayer results, etc?
What the fugue does this have to do with what we are talking about? But for the sake of simplisity, I don't care if these things exist.
The only plane that exists, do you contend, then is the physical world we can see and touch?
I don't know if the physical world we know is the only plane of existence or not. However, how does having faith in something make it more likely to exist?
Do you also have 'faith' that we share the same ancestors as cockcroaches?
No, I don't have faith in that. I came to that conclusion after having spent many years studying science.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 4:23 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by simple, posted 06-24-2004 5:19 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
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