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Author Topic:   Today is the day! (Dutchies look inside)
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2355 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 1 of 10 (500104)
02-23-2009 3:24 AM


Today is the day that 6 million Dutch households are supposed to get a leaflet from a creationist organisation in The Netherlands.
What Leaflet? This one: http://www.creatie.info/books/bookid/3 (all in Dutch)
In this leaflet full of errors (of course) they try to attempt to talk people into rejecting evolution.
If any Dutchies are reading this, and they don't like the leaflet, consider sending it back to its creator.
See here for details: http://www.terugnaarjemaker.nl (also all in Dutch)
I hope you all enjoy (or not) this leaflet, and if you don't you know what to do.

I hunt for the truth
What you can do in my country and get away with:
Softdrugs? Legal!
Legal drinking age? 16!
Birth control (the pill)? Free!
Gay marriage? Legal!
Abortion? Legal!
Euthanasia? Legal!
Age of consent? 16 (14 if you have the parents permission)!
Yep, only one way down for us!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 7:00 AM Huntard has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2000 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 2 of 10 (500121)
02-23-2009 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Huntard
02-23-2009 3:24 AM


Huntard writes:
In this leaflet full of errors (of course) they try to attempt to talk people into rejecting evolution.
The reason the vast majority of folk believe in ToE arises out of their having been fed on a diet containing nothing but ToE - from the time they were "kleuters". Correctness (or not) of the theory aside, their belief in ToE is the product of brainwashing - not evaluation.
What difference if some came to believe in Creationism via the same process?
If any Dutchies are reading this, and they don't like the leaflet, consider sending it back to its creator.
I'd imagine the leaflet to have evolved

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Huntard, posted 02-23-2009 3:24 AM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 02-23-2009 9:42 AM iano has replied
 Message 4 by dwise1, posted 02-23-2009 10:52 AM iano has replied
 Message 5 by Capt Stormfield, posted 02-23-2009 3:49 PM iano has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3351 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 10 (500126)
02-23-2009 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by iano
02-23-2009 7:00 AM


Permit me to reitterate what you just said.
The reason the vast majority of folk believe in god arises out of their having been fed on a diet containing nothing but god - from the time they were "kleuters". Correctness (or not) of the religion aside, their belief in god is the product of brainwashing - not evaluation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 7:00 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 4:08 PM Taz has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5959
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 4 of 10 (500130)
02-23-2009 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by iano
02-23-2009 7:00 AM


I'd imagine the leaflet to have evolved
No it hasn't. It's just the same tired old crap that they've been slinging for 40 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 7:00 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 4:32 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 429
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 5 of 10 (500152)
02-23-2009 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by iano
02-23-2009 7:00 AM


The reason the vast majority of folk believe in ToE arises out of their having been fed on a diet containing nothing but ToE - from the time they were "kleuters". Correctness (or not) of the theory aside, their belief in ToE is the product of brainwashing - not evaluation.
Would you consider the general public acceptance of the ideas underlying science in general to be the result of "brainwashing" too? If so, do you attach a negative connotation to the word, and why? Do you think their conclusions would be different if they evaluated ToE?
What difference if some came to believe in Creationism via the same process?
Do you see the evidence supporting creationism as equivalent to that supporting the ToE?
Capt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 7:00 AM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 4:28 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2000 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 6 of 10 (500155)
02-23-2009 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
02-23-2009 9:42 AM


Taz writes:
Permit me to reitterate what you just said.
The reason the vast majority of folk believe in god arises out of their having been fed on a diet containing nothing but god - from the time they were "kleuters". Correctness (or not) of the religion aside, their belief in god is the product of brainwashing - not evaluation.
Permission granted ...and altered reiteration agreed with.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 02-23-2009 9:42 AM Taz has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2000 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 7 of 10 (500156)
02-23-2009 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Capt Stormfield
02-23-2009 3:49 PM


CS writes:
Would you consider the general public acceptance of the ideas underlying science in general to be the result of "brainwashing" too?
Too? I wouldn't see ToE as an idea underlying science. Better said that it's an idea which stretches the ideas underlying science. One idea underlying science is repeatable experimentation. That's not something underlying ToE. At least not without a stretch..
-
If so, do you attach a negative connotation to the word, and why?
Brainwashing is a neutral term in my view. It's a mode whereby an idea is taught and that idea can be a good thing or a bad thing. I think that brainwashing people to believe in God or believe in naturalistic Evolution is a bad thing. Hell will be filled with folk of both camps. I reckon..
-
Do you think their conclusions would be different if they evaluated ToE?
I think most would get lost long before they could/should arrive at a conclusion. The science that says yea or nay is pretty complex. I think the fair, safe conclusion - for the majority - would be agnosticism. Its not so much that they can't know - it's that they haven't got the time/ability to find out.
-
Do you see the evidence supporting creationism as equivalent to that supporting the ToE?
Not at all. At least not according to the current framework called "evidence - and how it is evaluated". I'm inclined to see the lay of the land as being reflected well by the linked image. The same evidence can be viewed in two completely different ways depending upon the lens (analogous to methodology) you employ.
Young girl or Old hag

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Capt Stormfield, posted 02-23-2009 3:49 PM Capt Stormfield has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by subbie, posted 02-23-2009 6:21 PM iano has not replied
 Message 10 by Parasomnium, posted 02-24-2009 7:12 AM iano has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 2000 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 8 of 10 (500158)
02-23-2009 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by dwise1
02-23-2009 10:52 AM


No it hasn't. It's just the same tired old crap that they've been slinging for 40 years.
40 years is nothing in evolution terms dw1. You should know that..
Spreek jij Nederlandse?! Als niet dan hoe...??
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by dwise1, posted 02-23-2009 10:52 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1314 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 9 of 10 (500165)
02-23-2009 6:21 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by iano
02-23-2009 4:28 PM


quote:
One idea underlying science is repeatable experimentation.
That's an important part of science, but certainly not the sine qua non. If it were, astronomy wouldn't be a science, nor would most of geology. Of perhaps you don't think those things are sciences.....

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by iano, posted 02-23-2009 4:28 PM iano has not replied

  
Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 10 of 10 (500246)
02-24-2009 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by iano
02-23-2009 4:28 PM


Repeatable experimentation
iano writes:
One idea underlying science is repeatable experimentation. That's not something underlying ToE. At least not without a stretch..
Can you elaborate on that? Why do you think the theory of evolution is not amenable to repeatable experimentation?

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
Did you know that most of the time your computer is doing nothing? What if you could make it do something really useful? Like helping scientists understand diseases? Your computer could even be instrumental in finding a cure for HIV/AIDS. Wouldn't that be something? If you agree, then join World Community Grid now and download a simple, free tool that lets you and your computer do your share in helping humanity. After all, you are part of it, so why not take part in it?

This message is a reply to:
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