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Author Topic:   Feeling of self
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 546 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 1 of 18 (297019)
03-21-2006 9:04 AM


For me, my feeling of self has led me to believe in God.

I think therefore I am.

I attribute my feeling of self to my spirit, which was created by God.

I see that others in here, who may or may not believe in God, also have a feeling of self. There even seems to be some sort of separation of science and this feeling of self, in that people have responded that science cannot explain all things, like right and wrong, and purpose in life. Subjective things.

My question is, what do you attribute your feeling of self to?
What gives us the freedom of thought, or free will that say maybe a tree doesn't have?


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by ramoss, posted 03-21-2006 12:32 PM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 3 by sidelined, posted 03-21-2006 12:53 PM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 4 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-21-2006 5:59 PM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 5 by Silent H, posted 03-21-2006 6:02 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3177
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 2 of 18 (297073)
03-21-2006 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 9:04 AM


It depends on what you mean by 'Feelings of self'. I do not remember when I do not have a 'feeling of self',

My 'conciousness' does not have an awareness of other 'conciousness's' other than those I physcially interact with. I don't get a 'feeling' that someone else is there in my brain, just me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 03-21-2006 9:04 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by riVeRraT, posted 03-21-2006 10:55 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 4534 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 3 of 18 (297076)
03-21-2006 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 9:04 AM


riVeRrat

My question is, what do you attribute your feeling of self to?

The impression of a self floating in the skull as though it were a seperate entity is an illusion produced by the activity of the brain in concert with a lack of neural feedback to allow the brain to sense itself.

This message has been edited by sidelined, Tue, 2006-03-21 10:53 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 03-21-2006 9:04 AM riVeRraT has responded

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2554 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 4 of 18 (297117)
03-21-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 9:04 AM


i think a tree has the same free will. what's to say you are more alive than a tree? all living things are fighting against chaos and will eventually fail. by passing our line on, we win the battle.

is there a god? does it matter? it doesn't make me any more or less alive to say there is or is not a god.


This message is a reply to:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 4446 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 5 of 18 (297118)
03-21-2006 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 9:04 AM


I think therefore I am... I attribute my feeling of self to my spirit, which was created by God.

Where'd He come from? It seems there is a step missing somewhere.

what do you attribute your feeling of self to? What gives us the freedom of thought, or free will that say maybe a tree doesn't have?

The feeling of self comes from my brain. The presence of a brain at all differentiates me from a tree, greater analytical capacity gives me greater freedom of thought than members of most other species if not all.

I have no knowledge if Gods exist or what relation they play in all of this.

This message has been edited by holmes, 03-22-2006 12:03 AM


holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 18 (297122)
03-21-2006 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Silent H
03-21-2006 6:02 PM


Where'd He come from? It seems there is a step missing somewhere.

Perhaps he is referring to what we might call the "argument from incorporeality." The mind is incorporeal, and thus could not have come from nature. So there exists something beyond nature from whence this incorporeal thing, the self, came.


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 546 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 7 of 18 (297164)
03-21-2006 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by ramoss
03-21-2006 12:32 PM


just me.

That's all I'm talking about, just you, and where do you think your feeling of self comes from.


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 546 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 8 of 18 (297165)
03-21-2006 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by sidelined
03-21-2006 12:53 PM



The impression of a self floating in the skull as though it were a seperate entity is an illusion produced by the activity of the brain in concert with a lack of neural feedback to allow the brain to sense itself.

So would you categorize it as objective? Since you seem to have an objective explanation for it?


This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 546 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 9 of 18 (297166)
03-21-2006 11:01 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by macaroniandcheese
03-21-2006 5:59 PM


i think a tree has the same free will.

In what sense?
Can it make decisions? Can it think for itself?
Does it wonder why he doesn't have legs?

all living things are fighting against chaos and will eventually fail. by passing our line on, we win the battle.

If I said that, I would be a ego maniac.

is there a god? does it matter? it doesn't make me any more or less alive to say there is or is not a god.

I don't understand, what does that have to do with my question?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-21-2006 5:59 PM macaroniandcheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-21-2006 11:12 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 546 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 10 of 18 (297170)
03-21-2006 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by robinrohan
03-21-2006 6:28 PM


Perhaps he is referring to what we might call the "argument from incorporeality." The mind is incorporeal, and thus could not have come from nature. So there exists something beyond nature from whence this incorporeal thing, the self, came.

No, I am not saying that. The mind could have very well have come from nature, but nature came from God, is my belief.

But it is more the spirit, the one I feel God gave me, and my soul.

Where in the body these things reside, remains to be seen. But I feel the difference between my spirit and soul, unless I am just schizophrenic. Like Slim shady, there is 3 sides to him.

But then there is always the question of if your mind gets damaged, does this affect your soul/spirit? I would say it affects your soul, but not your spirit. I have damaged my own mind enough, but yet my spirit remains unchanged.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by robinrohan, posted 03-21-2006 6:28 PM robinrohan has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by robinrohan, posted 03-22-2006 6:25 AM riVeRraT has responded

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2554 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 11 of 18 (297171)
03-21-2006 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 11:01 PM


In what sense?
Can it make decisions? Can it think for itself?
Does it wonder why he doesn't have legs?

i don't know. i might see a tree tomorrow. i will ask it.

all plants grow against gravity and grow in different directions to avoid wind damage. i think that's mighty demonstrative of their permitted free will. i'm sure if trees had legs, they'd walk to better climates.

If I said that, I would be a ego maniac.

no. if you said that, you'd be referencing your belief that people should have children and beat down chaos because that is their purpose. i am suggesting that if one wants to fight chaos, one might decide to have children. or decide to study theoretical math. either will work come to think of it.


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I don't understand, what does that have to do with my question?

you suggested that your feeling of self, your cogito ergo sum leads you to believe in god. i am asking why cogito ergo deus? deus ex machina?

i believe my feeling of self comes from my feeling of self. and if that sounds difficult for you, you should take a camping trip in my head sometime. then it will seem like the simplest thing ever... if only because everything else is so damned complicated and convoluted.

This message has been edited by brennakimi, 03-21-2006 11:17 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by riVeRraT, posted 03-21-2006 11:01 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 03-22-2006 8:51 AM macaroniandcheese has responded

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 4534 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 12 of 18 (297187)
03-22-2006 1:39 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 10:57 PM


riVeRrat

So would you categorize it as objective? Since you seem to have an objective explanation for it?

Well, the word subjective is used by humans as a means of labeling the category of experience that comes from the activity of the personal mind so it is subjective in that sense, however ,the brain is wrongly assigning the impression of this activity as belonging to an entity existing seperate from the body.

This is perfectly consonant with the notion that the world as a material structure is capable of producing these impressions from strictly physical phenomena. It is therefore also an objective effect that we subjectively interpret.I hope this does more to clarify than confuse.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams

This message is a reply to:
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 4446 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 13 of 18 (297210)
03-22-2006 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by macaroniandcheese
03-21-2006 11:12 PM


why cogito ergo deus? deus ex machina?

That's what I was asking but put so much more cleverly.


holmes
"What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by macaroniandcheese, posted 03-21-2006 11:12 PM macaroniandcheese has not yet responded

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 18 (297225)
03-22-2006 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by riVeRraT
03-21-2006 11:08 PM


No, I am not saying that. The mind could have very well have come from nature, but nature came from God, is my belief.

But it is more the spirit, the one I feel God gave me, and my soul.

It might be better for your argument if you didn't multiply all these entities. Just settle on one. "Mind" will do as well or better than the others. The Mind is the self is the spirit is the soul.

This message has been edited by robinrohan, 03-22-2006 06:58 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by riVeRraT, posted 03-21-2006 11:08 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by riVeRraT, posted 03-22-2006 8:48 AM robinrohan has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 546 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 15 of 18 (297257)
03-22-2006 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by robinrohan
03-22-2006 6:25 AM


It might be better for your argument if you didn't multiply all these entities.

It is not an argument. It's a question, and everyone can answer how they choose.

But I see inconsistencies in that people have claimed that science cannot explain all things, like purpose, and right from wrong, subjective things, yet some people try to objectively explain feeling of self here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by robinrohan, posted 03-22-2006 6:25 AM robinrohan has responded

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