The evidence of God

I must say, I felt sad when I was made fun of for having a different viewpoint. For showing some depth. To want to believe in something as real as it is beautiful, where you're not let down by your peers or in the end.I do not adhere to science, I do not adhere to the evidence. Christians who are hoping I will change, I'll let you down. There is no place for logic in the discussion of God. I learned today though. In That you aren't allowed to use a word with many meanings until you are instructed how to use it by another man, with another philosophy, that you know about math. I can't believe God can be defined by a textbook or by man.I see people here and it's a tragedy. They can't see the spirit in their life in their world, in their experience. In their experiences. I see people that accept coincidence and submit to society's rules. They need something to get at, they gripe at a system that adheres to a God, but they accept a place, a place in where they are 1 in 6 billion living a life with an occupation, with a place, a limited life experience. And it is accepted. And they complain about old men and young children who believe in something more ignorant than what they believe.What is ignorance? Anything that doesn't follow your precious human evidence? This isn't racism. This can't be reasoned with. Righteous men have become from the Bible. Atheists denial of the only thing thats real in this entire world of nothing amazes me. People criticize or demean those that don't adhere directly to the evidence are prejudice like racists.I would like to apologize to all atheists because a christian could be guilty of this. I hope you accept my apology from my discriminating remark. They crucify anyone and anything that doesn't agree with this evidence--this nothingness that has been given value. I'll side with the ignorant. I won't agree with you. How dare you define what's real. What is ignorant? What is worth believing in? You have no idea.The world can give a negative impression. Nature can give a negative impression. If you're sad the weather can make it worse, you start losing hope because you're letting yourself get pushed around, its like being a participant in society. Well I'm weak too, we all get pushed around then a high enlightened one takes away the only thing we have left. Our belief. He shapes and changes it threatening with evidence, with truth that his perspective is true.I refuse to deny God. Because I see God in you, I should be scorned and laughed at?This is why I feel so bad because I'm trying to show where the food is to these malnourished humans on this journey down a downward spiral. This food is right next to them but they won't accept it. I don't enjoy it. I observe it. It's giving me this melancholy feeling right now because God is trying to teach me something... But this oppression can't last forever! Give me a few months. Ahtman=Brahman is true because I can see God in you, but all I wanted to do was to stick up for people losing their beliefs because the evidence is swaying them. It won't enhance your experience, it'll dwindle it to nothing, and if you lose the hope you have nothing. You become man made. But the fact is you were made by God, you been perfectly created. There's no errors in it or imperfections because there is a reason to it. That existentialist was wrong. It's not your fault that your life is bad. It's everybody elses. It's beyond your control, do your best ot not lose hope and keep your head up so you can witness God when he decides to cheer you up.Everyone deserves something when we die. I refuse to believe this hellhole is the best that we could expect and look forward to or to make the best of.There are men breaking their bodies hoping and praying for peace. They're breaking their bodies for their undeserving children, they take all this oppression, this lie that life is good if you make it that way, they destroy themselves to give their children a better experience.They wait for their pensions too. So they can retire and not work anymore when they're nearly dead and not guaranteed another day. If that is all your existence consists of-- to live and die-- than there is no point in living.Because this life is harsh, its rough, its corrosive and poisonous, it exists solely to bring you down and when you're brought down to that point where you have no hope because a few enlightened ones wanted to let you know that your beliefs hold no bearing and this is it and there is nothing beautiful, it is all what it seems to be, don't worry you won't remember when you don't exist anymore, then you die and God stimulates you into being happy and you live.Or does God let you in on his secret: he tells your hard working wrinkled face that has been let down something that you needed to know that gave you peace, that let your tired body rest.I refuse that God gives empty promises. I refuse to believe my father prays in vain every sunday, pays homage to a god that doesnt even exist, that he sighs and he meditates, that he finds this bliss, that hes living to die to not exist anymore. I cant accept my favorite person doesnt exist anymore.I refused to believe in second grade that my mother wasnt in heaven and I still do. That evil fundamentalist consoled me, he gave me hope he was sure she was in heaven.People that vocally look down upon believers in an afterlife:YOU'RE adding to the filth, you are the filth. you deny people the hope of peace in death, you seek to erase legacies, and desecrate memories and leave all those ppl to die and rot in this hell. This is hell. This earth is hell. I will not be confined to it. My dad wont be confined to it, they scream for it, I scream for it, I scream for justice , I scream for life, I scream to be happy, it rattles through my bones. And if I died and I was in the ground my soul would scream for me and my soul is real your soul is real, Good souls that get fucked over in life that get little money, that get destroyed and burnt by this world, by this system. Show me a man that died happy. Show me the truth. Show me God, show me God in everything. Because God would dare to not give each and every one of you what you deserve.People that preach death without life:You can choose to believe that this hell is all we have to expect. I won't. Stop preaching this hopeless message that takes a piece of your soul and never brings it back!
I refuse to be like you.I refuse to live like you.I see God in every major figure in history that has ever meant something or contributed something to us. I refuse to believe there is no hope for humans.There is hope. There is hope for life after death.Because the souls of the tortured, of the oppressed of the left for dead demand it, and you cannot deny them as you deny the God in yourself because you can not possess a soul that isn't yours.That's design. That's intelligent design, thats evidence for God.That's life after death, after hell.This message has been edited just a wee bit by AdminPhat, 04-26-2005 08:06 AMThis message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-26-2005 08:09 AMThis message has been edited by chris simon porteus jr, 04-27-2005 03:12 PM

I invited you into the coffeehouse because I sensed the passion in your message. I know your heart, and I know that you are not dissing anyone personally here at EvC.You have had some lifechanging experiences in the past few years.
I can relate to where you are coming from. I lost my Dad when I was 17. He was a part of my life for ALL of my life before that. People came up to me at the funeral and then turned away...embarrassed to say what it was that they wanted to say. They KNEW that they could not relate to me...to the pain that I felt!I did not know God for the first 32 years of my life, but He was with me...walking beside me step by step. When I first met Him, I was in love with life! I was in awe of Him! How do I explain this to a science forum? How can I tell anyone who has never been touched what a touch feels like??Nobody will ever squash my faith. I promoted your rant, even if it is NOT as P.C. or as concise as it could be, because you kept asking.
You have no agenda. You just wanted to be heard.To all who respond to this topic, try and respect this mans feelings and understand that he has been through a lot in his life. His evidence of God is not something that he can prove to you unless you knew him.

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I refuse to be like you. I refuse to live like you.

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Too bad, you might be happier and less self-obsessed if you lived more like me.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I only want to make fun of you for your atrocious spelling and grammar. Honestly, what would Chris Simon Porteus Sr. say? That's certainly your call. But I would hope you can see how that might make having a conversation about... well, just about anything... rather difficult.Again... your call. But given that your post seems to be screaming for respect in arguments, that would seem to present a conflict which you need to resolve. You're absolutely right, Chris. I can't think of a single person on this planet who doesn't deserve more happiness than they actually receive in life. The current state of the world is not the best we can hope for.If you don't like that this is the case, you should probably set about making the Earthly life of each and every person you meet just a little bit better; make sure that the Earth is a better place with you than it would be without you.If you believe in God, I can't see any better way to honor him. If you don't, well that's okay too. Because we atheists generally refer to that way of life as "not being a dick". I honestly feel enormously sorry for you, Chris.Personally, I think the world is a fucking beautiful place. In fact, I feel so strongly about it that I'm going to put some extraneous capital letters in there.The world is a Fucking Beautiful Place. Well, you're a poopy head. So there. Yes, I scream, you scream, we all scream for insane message board rants.You don't like the world. That's horrifically unfortunate for you. Me, I'm pretty damn happy with it. I'm even happier about the six billion other people I get to share it with.What I don't get is how your personal dislike of this world amounts to the world being a corrosive, poisonous hell-hole. Wait, what? You're gonna have to walk us through the jump there, Chris.

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"You can't expect him to be answering your prayers when he's not real, can you? That's like writing to the characters of a soap opera and expecting a reply, Mr. Silly Sausage!"
-Jane Christie

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I must say, I felt sad when I was made fun of for having a different viewpoint. For showing some depth. To want to believe in something as real as it is beautiful, where you're not let down by your peers or in the end

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You believe what you want - it's nothing to do with the rest of us.

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I do not adhere to science, I do not adhere to the evidence. Christians who are hoping I will change, I'll let you down. There is no place for logic in the discussion of God. I learned today though. In That you aren't allowed to use a word with many meanings until you are instructed how to use it by another man, with another philosophy, that you know about math. I can't believe God can be defined by a textbook or by man.

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If you don't believe in Science or evidence - stick to the faith/belief folders. Don't wander into any of the science based ones.

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I see people here and it's a tragedy. They can't see the spirit in their life in their world, in their experience. In their experiences. I see ppl that accept coincidence and submit to society's rules. They need something to get at, they gripe at a system that adheres to a God, but they accept a place, a place in where they are 1 in 6 billion living a life with an occupation, with a place, a life limited experience. And it is accepted. And they complain about old men and young children who believe in something more ignorant than what they believe.

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What is ignorance? Anything that doesn't follow your precious human evidence? This isn't racism. This can't be reasoned with. Righteous men have become from the Bible. Atheists denial of the only thing thats real in this entire earth of nothing amazes me. People criticize or demean those that don't adhere directly to the evidence are prejudice like racists.

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Rant - partly nonsense - nothing to discuss here.

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I would like to apologize to all atheists because a christian could be guilty of this. I hope you accept my apology from my discriminating remark. They crucify anyone and anything that doesn't agree with this evidence. This nothingness that has been given value. I'll side with the ignorant. I won't agree with you. How dare you define what's real. What is ignorant? What is worth believing in? You have no idea.

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more onarism (sp?) - nothing to discuss.The rest was so boring that I just couldn't be bothered to read it.Is there a point to this ramble?

I wasn't sure if I should reply to this but I decided to voice my opinion just as you had. I respect your opinion and your belief, keep that in mind. It seems as though you take offending views to heart as attacks to you personally. So please keep an open mind and know that my views have nothing to do with you personally.

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I have felt the same way. In my heart. I have felt God and a spirit within me. I have felt like He was there with me.My mother was diagnosed with ovarian cancer when I was 17 and she died when I was 19. It was a long hard road of treatments, extreme highs and lows. I was closer to her than any other person in my life. We didn't have a very mother/son relationship but we had an excellent friendship and we felt eternally bound to each other. She taught me so much about life and love in the short time I had with her.While she was dying in her hospital bed she grew more and more aware of God. She had always believed in "something" but never an organized religion. She was definitely a Christian, though. This changed greatly as she came to terms with her death. She began to need a higher power in many ways.Although we were all there and I was with her every second I could be during her last few months, she needed more. She needed a life force beyond her hospital room.I felt it too. I had been studying so much raw science during the day and then I go to the hospital and all my reason and logic immediately goes out the window. I succumb to the heartbreaking emotion every time and "receive" God in my heart. I prayed with her and all. I felt something, because I'm human.She then died. I was 19, I was heartbroken. The more I thought about heaven and what might be, the more I was able to hold my emotions at bay. But why? Where is she? So what if she's in heaven or any other human manifestation to help with grief? She is GONE. I will never see her again.That God in my heart was fear and pain. That is what religion is. It's a tool used to help with my fears and pains and I used it for a while. What it really does, though, is make things hurt more (for me at least). Religion is built on fear and pain. It's built on the fear of the unknown.What I experienced is what people have been experiencing since the beginning of time -- death, the unknown, loss, grief.So you see, I remain with my evil logic and reason, I see past my stupid human emotions and I realize what they are and embrace them. I feel sad, yes, I will never see people again after they die. I feel scared of death, of course. Death is a shitty thing.But that is ok. I would rather be scared than lie to myself.

AH! I apologize! That reply was supposed to be to the original post.

Chris, Actually, it's a non-scientific hypothesis in dire need of evidence, rather than actually representing evidence in & of itself. Given the thread title pertains to evidence of God, & your opening post is actually devoid of it, one is wondering if you have any?MarkThis message has been edited by mark24, 04-26-2005 09:24 AM

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

I can't speak for Chris, but I think that what he is trying to say, really, is that the evidence of God that he speaks of is witnessed by the passion and emotion stirred up within him.You do not see it as I do. You may just see a young man on a pointless rant. I see that as well, but I also see something deeper. Many people think that Christians always want to be right. Its not that. Its that we want to have agreement...a communion, if you will..with you.

Well we don't want your communion - I'm sorry if that sounds rude but why mince words?Can't you follow the advice of Jesus?

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Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

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I'm cannot think of a clear way to frame this but it seems to me that christians are struggling with changes in society that means that their ideas are awarded no special merit and have to compete with all the other religions for airtime.This message has been edited by General Krull, 26-Apr-2005 10:03 AM

You're a good man, Phatboy. But I think you're looking for good intent where there is only rage.For instance, how does the following:

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YOU'RE adding to the filth, you are the filth. you deny people the hope of peace in death, you seek to erase legacies, and desecrate memories and leave all those ppl to die and rot in this hell.

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Amount to seeking a communion?Other than in the sense of telling us, essentially, to get on our knees and take his body in our mouths?

I was going to reply to every point in your post, but my spidy sense told me to give it a day or so and see if I still have the itch to reply. One thing though, at least I'll make more money than you with my degree and ability to communicate.

Dan, (or alias) when a believer rants like this, they are ranting at the spirit behind people rather than at the people themselves.If I were to say that the arrogant, greedy, selfish world that we live in is heading towards doom, would I be hate'n on the world?No.Were you to say that the ignorant, pompous, and clueless fundies were the real evil in U.S. politics, would you be talking of the people themselves...individually...or of the position which they allowed to occur?

Except that in this case, he posted to the forum, addressing the people here directly. Depends on the situation. If I were to say, "Damn, did you hear what Rick Santorum said this week? Man, that guy's a dick," I'd be talking about Rick Santorum himself.Normally I try to get pretty specific in political discussions, to avoid exactly this type of situation.

Phatboy, Oh, that was the excuse for the vicious rant where people get called filth?If that's the case, whenever I get pissed off that'll be evidence of the Hindu pantheon, right?Mark

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't