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Author Topic:   Experiment in Evolution
God
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 7 (65218)
11-08-2003 8:24 PM


I'm a student looking for experiment ideas. I would love to know of any evolution-related experiments that you would like to have performed. This can include typical elements like fruit flies or involve more complicated aspects--just please remember that as a student I have limited resources available. What testable evolutionary question have you always wanted ansered? In return for your ideas, I will invest the time to carry out the experiment and explain my results. Thank you for your help.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Minnemooseus, posted 11-08-2003 9:03 PM God has not replied
 Message 3 by NosyNed, posted 11-08-2003 9:09 PM God has not replied
 Message 4 by Rrhain, posted 11-10-2003 9:40 PM God has not replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3945
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 2 of 7 (65234)
11-08-2003 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by God
11-08-2003 8:24 PM


I though that the present situation of life on earth were the results of God's experiment. Now you're looking for suggestions on how to go about doing it differently?
Moose
A side note from Adminnemooseus (minnemooseus in the admin mode):
Would you like to try starting over, with a different member name? I can (and this does sound strange) delete "God", so you can re-register from the same e-mail address (there can only be one name registered from a given e-mail address).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by God, posted 11-08-2003 8:24 PM God has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 3 of 7 (65237)
11-08-2003 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by God
11-08-2003 8:24 PM


Have you tried google to find anything yet?
Somewhere in here Rrhain (I think) has suggested some experiments that have been done with nylon eating bacteria ( I can't find it.)
We are not likely to give you a new experiment that hasn't been done (especially not one that you can do with simple equipment and limited time).
Why don't you ask your thesis advisor? Why us?
If you don't have a thesis advisor then you aren't really being serious are you? Don't pretend!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by God, posted 11-08-2003 8:24 PM God has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 4 of 7 (65716)
11-10-2003 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by God
11-08-2003 8:24 PM


An example I frequently give here:
Here's an experiment you can do in the privacy of your own bio lab. It doesn't cost very much and the materials can be acquired from any decent biological supply house.
Take a single E. coli bacterium of K-type. This means the bacterium is susceptible to T4 phage. Let this bacterium reproduce until it forms a lawn. Then, infect the lawn with T4 phage.
What do we expect to happen? That's right, plaques should start to form and, eventually, the entire lawn will die. After all, every single bacterium in the lawn is descended from a single ancestor, so if the ancestor is susceptible, then all the offspring should be susceptible, too.
But what we actually see is that some colonies of bacteria in the lawn are not affected by the phage.
How can this be? Again, the entire lawn is descended from a single ancestor. They should all behave identically. If one is susceptible, then they're all susceptible. If one is immune, then they're all immune. This can't be an example of "adaptation" because if one could do it, they all could do it.
But since there is a discrepancy, we are left with only one conclusion: The bacteria evolved. There must be a genetic difference between the bacteria that are surviving and those that died.
Indeed, we call the new bacteria K-4 because they are immune to T4 phage.
But we're not done. Take a single K-4 bacterium and repeat the process: Let it reproduce to form a lawn and then infect the lawn with T4 phage.
What do we expect to happen? That's right: Absolutely nothing. All of the bacteria are descended from a single ancestor that is immune to T4 phage. Therefore, they all should survive and we shouldn't see any plaques form.
But we do. Plaques do, indeed start to form. How can this be? Again, all the bacteria in the lawn are descended from a single ancestor that was immune to T4 phage, so they shold all behave identically. If one is immune, then all are immune. There must be something else going on.
Something evolved, but the question is what. What evolved? Could it be the bacteria experiencing a reversion mutation back to K-type? No, that can't be it. Suppose any given bacteria did revert back to wild. It is surrounded by K-4 type who are immune to T4 phage. As soon as the lawn is infected, those few bacteria will die and immediately be replaced by the offspring of the immune K-4 bacteria. We would never see any plaques forming because the immune bacteria keep filling in any holes that appear.
So if it isn't the bacteria that evolved, it must be the phage. And, indeed, we call the new phage T4h as it has evolved a new host specificity.
There is a similar experiment where you take bacteria that have had their lactose operons removed and they evolve to be able to digest lactose again.
You might want to look up the information regarding the development of bacteria capable of digesting nylon oligimers. It's the result of a single frame-shift mutation.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by God, posted 11-08-2003 8:24 PM God has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Chiroptera, posted 11-10-2003 9:44 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 7 (65719)
11-10-2003 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Rrhain
11-10-2003 9:40 PM


That's...beautiful, Rrhain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Rrhain, posted 11-10-2003 9:40 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
God
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 7 (65751)
11-11-2003 2:11 AM


gracias
Many thanks to Rrhain...a very interesting proposal; I will certainly consider it.
NosyNed the reason I am asking you about my experiment seems obvious to me: this is an evolution site, and I am in a Biology class. I am a high school senior, and while my teacher is helping me, I have no real "thesis advisor". I'd love to hear any of your ideas--and thanks for the Rrhain lead-- but discouraging a student's developing experiment is a waste of bandwidth. I AM very serious about this experiment; this website is just one small tool that I was trying to use to get some starting ideas. So as I've said before I'd love an answer to my original question if you have one.....otherwise I dont see why anyone would reply to this category.

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by NosyNed, posted 11-11-2003 2:50 AM God has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9003
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 7 of 7 (65753)
11-11-2003 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by God
11-11-2003 2:11 AM


Re: gracias
My apologies. I didn't intend to be discouraging just realistic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by God, posted 11-11-2003 2:11 AM God has not replied

  
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