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Author Topic:   The role of the concept of "person" in christian salvation
lfen
Member (Idle past 4705 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 1 of 3 (136870)
08-25-2004 9:28 PM


The way most christians speak of salvation it appears that they are saying that a person is saved. This appears to be a basic assumption, an axiom if you will, that a person is something permanent or something that can be made permanent. Like questioning Euclid's axiom that parallel lines never cross this assumption of permanent person is naively widely accepted but in some modern philosophy and some eastern systems it is challenged.
In Mahayana Buddhism monks are required to take a vow to not enter nirvana until all sentient beings have been saved, a near impossible task. The fulfillment of the vow is the realization that from the begining not a single being has ever existed.
If there is not a permanent person would there still be a Christianity? (based on Bernadette Roberts I think there could be but it would differ from the naive conception).
lfen

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 08-30-2004 3:56 PM lfen has not replied

  
AdminNosy
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Message 2 of 3 (138089)
08-30-2004 11:45 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 3 (138183)
08-30-2004 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by lfen
08-25-2004 9:28 PM


One thing you might want to consider is looking at the Gospel of Thomas.
The Gospel of Thomas was most likely written very early in the Christian era, probably preceeding any of the now accepted four Gospels and may well reflect the actual viewpoint of many of the early Christians. In many ways it is far more Eastern in nature than Matthew, Mark and Luke and without the overriding need to establish Church that is found in John.
3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
18) The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be."
Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."
(22) Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom."
They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."
I seems that Jesus had a different sense of self than what is common today. I imagine sitting and talking with him would have been much like a day with the Buddha, Mencius or Lao Zi, entertaining, troubling and filled with awe and confusion.
42) Jesus said, "Become passers-by."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by lfen, posted 08-25-2004 9:28 PM lfen has not replied

  
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