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Author Topic:   Could the flood have been exaggerated?
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1 of 23 (582161)
09-20-2010 5:20 AM


Slovenija had a flood this week it lasted for 2 days it was caused by abundant rainfall and the rising of rivers since we tend to build houses out of brick and concrete there was not a lot of damage and i think no lives where lost. we also had our very own Noas they used their boats and canoes to get people to the store and things like that.

now if this flood happened 3000 years ago when not evryone could write i would not be a stretch for me if it became similar to the flood in the bible

i would poste some pictures of the flood but they are only on our news sites and i cant seem to get them from there so il link the news site where you can take a look

http://24ur.com/...si-in-mesta-pod-vodo-dela-bo-ogromno.html
http://24ur.com/...eo-stevilna-slovenska-mesta-pod-vodo.html -some videos from the air
http://24ur.com/...zaradi-poplav-brez-povezave-s-svetom.html

Edited by Admin, : Fix title.

Edited by Admin, : Fix title.


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Message 2 of 23 (582179)
09-20-2010 6:46 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Could the flood been exaggerated? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 3 of 23 (582180)
09-20-2010 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-20-2010 5:20 AM


I think it is safe to say that any costal civilisation would over dramatise the importance of flooding in their region. Considering most people would not travel much they would view where they live as the whole world.

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greyseal
Member (Idle past 2119 days)
Posts: 464
Joined: 08-11-2009


Message 4 of 23 (582182)
09-20-2010 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-20-2010 5:20 AM


sure it could be an exageration.
The difference between falling off your motorbike and scraping your knee, and a dare-devil stunt involving a run from the law, gun-toting bad-guys and a battle-scar as you escaped the burning building clutching the broken remains of your bike over one shoulder and the rescued damsel over the other is about a hundred retellings.

Or in other words, sure - a local flood would very easily expand to be a year-long disaster that only saved one pious family and drowned the rest in about four generations.

On the other hand, it could just be a stupid story that doesn't make any practical sense intended as an object lesson and taken way too seriously by god-bothering idiots who can't do basic math.


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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2447 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 5 of 23 (582211)
09-20-2010 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by greyseal
09-20-2010 7:00 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
Or in other words, sure - a local flood would very easily expand to be a year-long disaster that only saved one pious family and drowned the rest in about four generations.

On the other hand, it could just be a stupid story that doesn't make any practical sense intended as an object lesson and taken way too seriously by god-bothering idiots who can't do basic math.

It could aso be a combination of both, or a combination of 2 or more stories combined, by retelling of both stories with the common embellishment added by each retelling until the time the story is compiled and written for posterity at which time the original story and the purpose of the telling becomes totally lost.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


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jar
Member
Posts: 31273
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 6 of 23 (582212)
09-20-2010 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by bluescat48
09-20-2010 11:39 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
There is definite evidence that it is at least two different stories if not more.

AbE: as illustration

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 6 God instructs Noah to:

quote:
19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

In the version of the myth found in Genesis 7 we see similar (close but not the same) instructions:

quote:
2 Take with you seven of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth.

We also find similar explanations of what will be destroyed in Genesis 6 it says:

quote:
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them."

and in Genesis 7:

quote:
4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

In both myths lots of critters get killed, in the myth found in Genesis 6 it seems to be talking about land animals and birds while the myth found in Genesis 7 goes even further and wipes out all living things.

Edited by jar, : add textual evidence


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 79 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 7 of 23 (582228)
09-20-2010 12:50 PM


What perception would Pakistani people have 2k+ years ago seeing a flood like this? Look at some of the smaller groups who are COMPLETELY surrounded by water with water as far as the eye could see.


"What can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof."-Hitch.

    
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 1022 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 8 of 23 (582321)
09-20-2010 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-20-2010 5:20 AM


Re: Could the flood been exaggerated?
If one reads the flood story from the perspective of those who wrote it, and first read it (and why would one wish to do otherwise?); then one would not imagine , because they could not imagine , that their word for dirt should someday be applied to a spinning rock which flies among the stars.

What we read as "earth" they read as "land."

They didn't exaggerate the story, we did.

Yes, boys and girls, it really is that simple.

Religionists have pretty much ruined what was once called "The Good Book." For starters, they have made it virtually impossible to believe. Such idiots dare call themselves Bible scholars, and propose to "share" with us, "the word of God;" a word they wouldn't recognize if it bit them on the butt.


Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

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Nij
Member (Idle past 3147 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 9 of 23 (582394)
09-21-2010 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
09-20-2010 11:45 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
Hey jar, the thread is about whether the story could have been/was exaggerated. There's already a a couple going about the contradictions and stuff -- don't turn this one into a crusade and wreck it before it gets going properly, please?
Just a friendly request.

And yes, there are known to be numerous events that were likely embellished. For example, the Black Sea deluge; while it may not have been as big as originally claimed, it was definitely a large increase in water level over a relatively short period of time.

Plus, who wouldn't build up that kind of story? It's human nature to be competitive: "our flood was bigger than yours! Nahnahnahnahnah.."

And then there's also the propaganda value. "We are the chosen descendants of the only people to survive a flood that killed everything! Our ancestor was the single person selected by God to save all life! Blah blah, self-promotion, exaggeration, etc."

There's also the fact that there really was a flood that destroyed the entire "world". For a majority of people at the time, the "world" consisted of everything within a few dozen miles of your birthplace.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 10 of 23 (582395)
09-21-2010 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Nij
09-21-2010 4:26 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
i was hoping for some contra arguments there is really not much to debate if there is no one on the opposite side of the fence

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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 11 of 23 (582396)
09-21-2010 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by frako
09-21-2010 4:33 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
i was hoping for some contra arguments there is really not much to debate if there is no one on the opposite side of the fence
i was hoping for some contra arguments there is really not much to debate if there is no one on the opposite side of the fence

The evidence killed the contra arguments and took it's stuff.


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Nij
Member (Idle past 3147 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 12 of 23 (582539)
09-21-2010 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Larni
09-21-2010 5:08 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
Doesn't stop creationists from raising the dead.
Ahh, zombie arguments!! Noooo!!

In all seriousness, they'll get around to it at some point. Most of them are otherwise engaged in rather heavy discussion and another thread about Teh Fludde isn't going to interest many yet.

And evidence? What evidence: the only "evidence" you need is The Holy Bible™, now in over twenty flavours to suit all of your theological needs!


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jar
Member
Posts: 31273
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 13 of 23 (582541)
09-21-2010 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Nij
09-21-2010 4:26 AM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
My point was that since there are at least two different versions of the flood story in the current version, that it is almost certain that it is based on some older oral traditions and so almost certainly an evolved and exaggerated story.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 14 of 23 (582627)
09-22-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
09-21-2010 9:46 PM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
My guess would be Gilgamesh XI or Atrahasis (both not oral but on tablets).

Edited by Larni, : brackets


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jar
Member
Posts: 31273
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 15 of 23 (582629)
09-22-2010 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Larni
09-22-2010 12:06 PM


Re: sure it could be an exageration.
Atrahasis is most likely older than Gilgamesh and it's very likely that they in turn are based on even older oral myths. It's interesting that the Atrahasis story includes many of the other features found in Genesis and so very likely played a part in the origins of several of the stories.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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