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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Some evidence for voter fraud | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'd start a coffee house thread on this but I'm banned from the coffee house so I'm putting it here.
Here are a couple of Infowars reports on evidence for voter fraud including the claim by Trump of millions of illegals voting. It's mostly quotes from various studies over the last few years, and it's mostly video so pinning down the facts from among the other stuff is very tedious and I'm not up to it right now. Maybe I can come back later and fill it in. So this is preliminary but I think there is enough here to raise serious questions about the integrity of the "mainstream" media in reporting this. For now all I can do is ask that people take the time to listen to the reports because it's just about the only place you are going to hear anything that contradicts the "mainstream" media lies. http://www.infowars.com/...als-voting-and-swinging-elections http://www.infowars.com/...udulent-registered-voters-in-2016'' A written report on the same info from the same page:
A study revealing that over 800,000 non-citizens voted for Hillary Clinton doesn’t account for dead and fraudulent voters, which accounted for over 25 million registered voters duringthe 2012 presidential election — and little has changed since then. Illegal alien voters combined with dead and multiple state voters could easily explain Clinton’s popular vote margin over Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election, especially considering that her victory came from Democratic-controlled counties known for illegal immigration and loose voter ID laws such as in New York and California. The Pew study found that almost 3 million people are registered to vote in more than one state, NPR added. There was a report on the Drudge Report of a study that showed that there were 800,000 illegals who voted for Hillary, which is considered to be one of many different studies that together add up to the millions that Trump is claiming. For some reason I can't find this report on Drudge and my eyes keep giving out in the effort. And if I can I will come back and add evidence on the numbers that attended the inauguration. At the moment I can say I've heard that the photo offered in proof of extremely low attendance at Trump's inauguration is false, and it looked false to me when I first saw it. There are even a few possible clues in the photo itself, a few identical trees in both the Obama and Trump pictures for instance, eight years apart yet. And don't such surveillance photos normally have the date and time stamped onto the film rather than added later as is clearly the case here? And another thought is that people were still arriving after the time given on the supposed Trump film, if the film even counts at all. I myself haven't doubted that Obama's attendance was much larger so I apparently disagree with Trump's information. Doesn't make my sources right or his right either. Something to find out. I understand more evidence is required so I hope to come up with it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Admin Director Posts: 13140 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
If you promise to refrain from participation in The Trump Presidency thread then I'll promote this thread to Coffee House and restore your posting permissions.
Edited by Admin, : Grammar.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
OK
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Admin Director Posts: 13140 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Thread copied here from the Some evidence for voter fraud thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome back Faith
Alex Jones (Infowars = alt news) implies they all voted. From your link:
quote: First lets look at the link:
quote: Curiously we get no reference to this "groundbreaking research" or the methodology of this "research" or to the blog. So I did a little search and found:
quote: So the author said the Washington Time piece is deceptive and that the evidence "did not provide evidence of voter fraud at the level some Trump administration people were claiming" rather that the extrapolation was solely for the purpose of showing that this kind of voter fraud could not be anywhere near the Trump claim of 5 million -- over 6 times what can only be considered a worst case ball park estimate. So there is no evidence that shows a single adult noncitizens actually voting. Next Alex said
quote: Bold for emphasis. What does the PEW report actually say:
quote: So not only is Alex implying something NOT in the report, but he is using a report that is 5 years out of date, so it doesn't include all the legitimate voters that have been purged by republican states. Again, there is no evidence of anyone actually doing voter fraud in this study. The ONLY case known in the last election was a republican caught in a red state that voted twice for Trump. 12 million records with incorrect addresses does not mean they voted twice. 2.75 people with registrations in multiple states does not mean they voted in those states.Bannon has registration in two states -- did he vote twice? It is possible that I am still registered in Michigan (there is not process to unregister iirc) but I did not vote there (I would have voted there instead of RI if I had the choice -- because MI) 1.8 million deceased individuals still on the registry does not mean someone voted for them, just that they are still registered and haven't been purged (unless in one of the red states that purged everyone they could, whether they were legitimate or not). But the biggest number is 51 million eligible citizens remain unregistered. This is an order of magnitude larger than Trumps petty claim. And I expect this number to be significantly bigger in 2016, especially in the red states that were purging legitimate voters and blocking people from voting -- THAT is the REAL fraud in this election. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2428 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Massive Non-Citizen Voting Uncovered in Maryland (October 29, 2014)
Massive Non-Citizen Voting Uncovered in Maryland – PJ Media An election integrity watchdog group is suing the state of Maryland, alleging that it has discovered massive and ongoing fraudulent voting by non-U.S. citizens in one county. But because of the way that the non-citizens are able to cast votes in elections, the fraud is likely happening in every single county and subdivision across the state. The group believes that the illegal voting has been happening for years. A local civil grand jury attempted to do a similar study but the Court refused to release the pertinent records. The "powers-that-be" like things the way they are...Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The discussions at Infowars took into account the age of the data. And of course it's obvious that 800,000 is not three to five million, nobody is overlooking that. They are talking about having MANY studies from different locations in different years, which they'll be covering over some time.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
And if I can I will come back and add evidence on the numbers that attended the inauguration. At the moment I can say I've heard that the photo offered in proof of extremely low attendance at Trump's inauguration is false, and it looked false to me when I first saw it. ... Just find a picture that does not show white at the far end but does show the monument there. Here is one from the 2015 Million Man March for reference:
Here is one from Trump Inauguration taken at a low angle (tends to hide gaps)
Note that you can still see a gap just over the media tower and smaller lines for gaps beyond that, and that the end of the mall is white and finally I only count 4 "jumbotron" screens that showed the inauguration stage for people to see and hear in real time. Now look at this:
quote: Noon, 40 minutes later. There would have to be an explosion of late-comers to fill the mall out to match either of Obama's inauguration crowds. Is there any evidence of a late large surge in crowd size? Here is a video showing the whole day for comparison. The crowd never fills the mall, there is no large surge in people arriving, they just straggle in:
Then there is this Trump supporter video:
quote: quote: Does that set the matter to rest for you? Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4758 From: u.k Joined: |
Hi RAZD, I really don't care all that much about this issue, I don't really do politics but it strikes me on the BBC photograph that their camera angle is from the rear, making the stark, white, "gap" at the back, seem much larger than from a birdseye view. If we count the sections where people are, it would seem one and a half are empty which but the camera is closer on the rear view, just as from the front view the crowd will look larger from the front.
What this all means I don't know, I'm just trying to throw out an opinion, my knowledge of politics is close to zero.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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I keep trying to compare the pictures with each other and am finding it hard to find clear points of reference, making it very hard to judge the soze pf the crpwds.
I still don't really know what degree of authenticity to assign to the long shots, or what numbers are represented by them. But I don't need Trump's crowd to be as large as Obama's, I've said I don't think it was, though Trump may have thought it was; and that looks like a pretty huge crowd to me in any case. But what would help put things in perspective is to see the original pictures Trump was objecting to as showing the crowd from some perspective that in his judgment minimized the actual numbers, based on his view from his position up front. I don't see anything in these photos that makes that comparison.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
The discussions at Infowars took into account the age of the data. And of course it's obvious that 800,000 is not three to five million, nobody is overlooking that. They are talking about having MANY studies from different locations in different years, which they'll be covering over some time. Of course they are. Talk is cheap. I repeat that the ONLY case of voter fraud in the last election was a woman that tried to vote twice for Trump. She said it was because of all the talk about voter fraud, so she wanted to counterbalance it. This is the danger of spreading false information. ie -- prove it, THEN we can talk. Meanwhile I still note that:
quote: 51 million UNREGISTERED LEGITIMATE VOTERS is way more than all the trumped up assumed numbers from republicans, and that was in 2012. It's worse now with the voter ID laws that have been used to disenfranchise legitimate voters. The republicans are using multiple voting MYTH to justify disenfranchising legitimate voters, So I will be happy with a full study and ways to rectify any actual voter fraud as long as legitimate voters are embraced and allowed to vote. Tit for tat eh? Of course 51 million voters would have likely changed the election, while the pretend voter fraud didn't. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
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Massive Non-Citizen Voting Uncovered in Maryland (October 29, 2014) Wow! Those non-citizens sure are patriotic.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1766 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm afraid I'm sort of getting dragged along in this discussion because I haven't had the time to really get into it. I was away for weeks becauser my computer had crashed and am now trying to deal with accumulated emails and other problems that a computer crash creates. So I'm just giving quick impressions. I should probably not post until I get more of a grip on it.
Something I left out of my previous post: The two pictures you said to identify by the presence of the monument are not so easy to judge because the distances are different. I posted the OP because I thought there WAS enough evidence for a start, though I said I knew more was needed, so you can refrain from accusing me of spreading false information. I have no idea what you are talking about when you say legitimate voters are getting disenfranchised by voter ID. Voter ID is intended of course to keep illegitimate people from voting, and the kind of problem you are talking about either doesn't exist or is some kind of glitch that needs correction, but which shouldn't be a monumental task. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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and the kind of problem you are talking about either doesn't exist or is some kind of glitch that needs correction, No, it is not always a "glitch". In fact, in North Carolina, the problem of disenfranchising voters through voter ID laws has been adjudicated in court where evidence was produced that the impact of the law was to deliberately encumber voting of student voters and African American voters. The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, a well-known conservative Circuit that upheld Voter ID in Virginia found that the disenfranchisement by the North Carolina Legislature was deliberate in its attempts to limiting voting.
quote: Just some facts to throw in, the legislature reviewed voting patterns in NC and then targetted their id requirements and other options to affect young folks, students, and African Americans. For example, state-issued gun permits are acceptable IDs, but state-issued student ID cards are not. As a second example, programs to register high school seniors and juniors ahead of graduation were canceled. Finally, evidence that dead people are registered and that folks are registered in two states is not evidence of voter fraud. It is instead evidence that states, often under Republican control (the majority of states) don't police their registration roles. There is generally no procedure for an individual to remove his registration when he moves or for his family to remove that registration when he dies. It is then no surprise that millions of folks, country-wide, have invalid registrations through no fault of their own. More alarmingly, some states use record purging steps that have the effect of removing valid voters from the registration list. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I posted the OP because I thought there WAS enough evidence for a start, though I said I knew more was needed, so you can refrain from accusing me of spreading false information. I appreciate your honesty here. There really is not much evidence at all that the press is lying about this issue. If you can turn up some evidence, that would be cool and this thread might well become extremely interesting. Right now I'd have to suggest that you opened the thread prematurely. Trump and Steve Bannon are calling the press the "opposition party" and Kellyanne Conway has insisted that it is not the job of the press to challenge any statements coming from the administration. I find the idea that the press is just supposed to be stenographers and mouthpieces to be fairly laughable. You might be able to convince folks that Trump was not lying because he actually believed his crowds was the largest one ever. But you won't be able to convince anyone reasonable that he never stated that. Just as admin is not fond of us calling each other liars, I think there are issues with the press leaping to the conclusion of lying every time somebody gets their facts wrong. I am not sure that this particular incident is one of those cases. But being dead wrong, and lying are not the same thing. Trump is not even in the ballpark about the size of the inauguration crowd. The fact is Trump drew enormous crowds. He could have celebrated that, but it seems to me that his "mirror mirror on the wall" type ego has repeatedly sabotaged Trump's photo ops. He managed to insult the CIA by standing in front of their hallowed monument to deceased employees and going off on a self-aggrandizing speech full of self-puffery. Further, Trump did have an outstanding week with the presidential pen. His already convinced supporters have a lot to cheer about. However, but many of those cheers are regarding things that his non-supporters would certainly not cheer Trump, Obama, or anyone else for. Then this other unseemly crap gets piled on top of that. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : wording change. No added content Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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