Verses Representative Of The Koran

The following is in response to Rei's request, I believe in post 38 of my Happiness/kidding thread about Nigeria.That's a tough assignment, Rei. I have access to the Koran from a close friend when I want it and I own four books, as well as www information on the subject and about the life of the prophet. The reason I say it's a tough assignment is that unlike the Bible, the Koran is not a relatively orderly historical account of world history, nor does it give much in detail about the life of the prophet himself as is the case with the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. Mohammed had what seems to be a rather confused understanding of Biblical history and laced bits of the Bible, some in harmony with the Bible and some not in his book, somewhat like Joseph Smith's incorporation of it into the Book of Mormon, but different in it's own way. He lends some credibility to Jesus as one more apostle to Allah. The book has quite a lot to say about Jesus, but he's reduced to apostle and not son of his god, Allah. Throughout the Koran Allah becomes the true god, replacing Jehovah, the god of the Bible. Thus, Jehovah is unacceptable and unknown to most Muslims. The following link is a very good collection of verses from the Koran for those who wish to examine some of the nature of it, the prophet's teaching on Mary, Jesus, the role of women, and much more.

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SELECTED QUOTATIONS FROM THE KORAN

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Stuart R. Kerr, III

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[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 10-04-2003]

I was expecting the usual assortment of out-of-context quotes; you referenced a mix similar what one would come to taking random quotations from the bible, so good for you! . Most Christian radicals that I have spoken to give a page where there is talk about resisting infidels or things like that, and ignore when in the Bible, God commands the Israelites to do the same. Mohammed is portrayed a "reluctant warrior"; in most of his life, he serves as a peacemaker in a region torn with war.As to the complaint about the name Allah vs. Jehovah, God has many names throughout the bible ("Jehovah" is not one of them - that's a corruption of YHVH; so is "Yahweh". The coining of the name Jehovah is typically traced back to Peter Galatin, the confessor of Pope Leo X; however, there is evidence of its use earlier, such as Pugio Fidei (written in 1270)). What is the proper pronunciation of YHVH? Noone knows - it has been lost, and unfortunately, in Hebrew the vowels are implied. Other names for God include El, Yah, Elohim, Theos, and Logos, and many, many others, including compound forms. Even "baal" (master) is used in reference to God at places, while later Baal is referred to as a pagan deity. There are lots of interesting things that become visible when you stop simply rendering all of these words as "God" - for example, John 1:1-3, which draws clear distinctions betwee the role of Logos and Theos. It actually gets a whole lot more complicated than this, and is worthy of its own thread.Given all of this, why is it impossible to picture Allah as just being yet another name for the same deity? One line of thought is that there was just one language before the tower of Babel; after the tower, languages were scattered - as well as the name for God.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 10-04-2003]

Mr Buzsaw, you only give us a link; too bad, had you written your own thoughts we would have a clearer notion on what you think of it. You are right that the Qur'an does not say that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam, like Judaism, is a strictly monotheistic religion. God is one, and He had no son. There is no original sin and therefore no need for a messiah. [No need for young-earth creationism either!] The Qur'an is a book of guidance, and Muslims consider it the highest authority, even more than the sayings of Muhammad. The Qur'an contains some stories and history, but not strictly intended to be historical.I am a Muslim. Feel free to discuss my holy book with me in this forum.

And if buzsaw had bothered to do HIS research properly he would see that Allah - as well as being the Arabic for "God" is derived from the equivalent of "El"...

As this thread is not on the god, Allah of the Koran, but on the writings of the book itself and since the name of these gods crops up quite often, in order to address the semantics of the names here I see the need for yet another thread which I will now prepare to open.

Don't bother unless you have some real evidence this time. And that means that you have to LOOK at the counter arguments instead of ignoring them.

Why all jump on Buzsaw, basically there is nothing wrong with message 1.

LOL!Mike... if you think the responses to the opening post are substantially flawed, maybe you could point out the errors in them. I suggest this in the interest of productive discussion. If all you can say is "there's nothing wrong with what he said," how can anyone answer that?"Yes, there is!"
"No, there isn't!"
"Is too!"
"Is not!"
"Is so!"
Isnotistooisnotistooisnotyesnoyesnoyesnoyesno....

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And if buzsaw had bothered to do HIS research properly he would see that Allah - as well as being the Arabic for "God" is derived from the equivalent of "El"...

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This, of course is addressed in the god names thread, that the Koranish god, Allah is the proper name of the Muslim god whereas the word for allah in the Bible is elohim and there is no higher case proper name Elohim in the old Hebrew manuscripts. It is always in the lower case in the manuscripts. The translators have changed it to the higher case which presents the confusion.

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Mr Buzsaw, you only give us a link; too bad, had you written your own thoughts we would have a clearer notion on what you think of it. You are right that the Qur'an does not say that Jesus is the Son of God. Islam, like Judaism, is a strictly monotheistic religion. God is one, and He had no son. There is no original sin and therefore no need for a messiah. [No need for young-earth creationism either!] The Qur'an is a book of guidance, and Muslims consider it the highest authority, even more than the sayings of Muhammad. The Qur'an contains some stories and history, but not strictly intended to be historical.
I am a Muslim. Feel free to discuss my holy book with me in this forum.

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Thanks Andya. I've got a lot going for the limited time I have to put into this, but hopefully I can soon find time to discuss with you some of the material in the quotes. If you have any specific items of interest you wish for me to comment on let me know. I have a friend in your nation who is an English to Indonesian translator of one of your dialects.

If you don't know that "El" is used for God in the Bible then I suggest you reread it. It appears in a number of names - including Bethel, and Immanuel (yes, when it is translated as "God is with us" the final "El" is the part which means "God".

Try not to be too hard on Buz, everyone - he's still learning.... of course, I hope he catches on in short order to the fact that there is *No* case in Hebrew (like in most alphabets). Occasionally people transliterate Hebrew words with the consonants (written) in upper case (plus other written characters, such as Aleph), and transliterate the implied vowels as lower case - but that doesn't change the fact that there is no upper and lower case in the original Hebrew texts. Now, if you want to get into the Greek texts...------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."[This message has been edited by Rei, 10-06-2003]

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If you don't know that "El" is used for God in the Bible then I suggest you reread it. It appears in a number of names - including Bethel, and Immanuel (yes, when it is translated as "God is with us" the final "El" is the part which means "God".

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This thread is not the name of god/gods thread. I opened that thread so as to keep this thread focused on the Koran rather than the more specific subject of names. I'll address this over in the thread designated for this subject.

And your response is refuted in the other thread. Although I notice that you find it acceptable for you to make assertions on the subject in this thread but complain when I reply.