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Author Topic:   Could this be a key argument?
Stipes
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 11 (93699)
03-21-2004 4:35 PM


I get the science channel at home, which by the way is really cool. If you guys are intrigued by this stuff you would love that channel.

Anyways I saw this really interesting theory. Scientists now conclude that the moon was created by a collision with earth. Scientists believe that an object about the size of Mars collided with the Earth. This shot out debris, and this debris later came up with the moon. How they came up with this conclusion I have right here.
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9707/28/moon.collision/
http://www.pip.com.au/~paceman/MOONCREATION.html

However the documentary took it a little further. Miller, I think that is his name, successfully created amino acids in a labratory. In his findings, he concluded that the atmoshpere had to be a "reduction atmosphere" for the amino acids to be created.

Well stick with me here. When iron is in contact with water, there really isn't a reaction. Well, very little of one. Everything goes into equilibrium, and what effects this equilibrium constant is temperature. Basic high school chemistry.

Scientists believe the hot iron that would be revealed due to the planetary collision would have made that reaction I said above "go" so to speak. It would create LOTS of hydrogen gas, the "reduction atmosphere" that Miller or Willer or whoever that guys name said had to be present.

The point is, life only could have started by the collision of the moon. I tried and went on an internet research rampage to find out when scientists believe this happened, and I came up with nothing. However maybe my research skills sucks, and I was wondering if anyone else is interested could obtain that information. This could essentially be a key argument towards the evolution or creation argument. So I was excited, and decided to share this with everyone in this forum. Reply if you find anything!


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Denesha, posted 03-21-2004 4:50 PM Stipes has not yet responded

  
Denesha
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 11 (93702)
03-21-2004 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stipes
03-21-2004 4:35 PM


Dear Stipe,

Sounds lovely.

quote:
This could essentially be a key argument towards the evolution or creation argument

Why use "or" at this presumed original stage of life?
A background idea?

Denesha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 4:35 PM Stipes has not yet responded

  
Itachi Uchiha
Member (Idle past 4607 days)
Posts: 272
From: mayaguez, Puerto RIco
Joined: 06-21-2003


Message 3 of 11 (93719)
03-21-2004 5:37 PM


Theres no trace on the earth nor the moon that leaves us any clue to think such a thing is true. I mean the earths form as well as the moon would look something a bit different than a sphere if they had suffered an impact of this magnitude. The only thing that we can conlude about the moon is that it was practically bombed by asteroids in the past.

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 5:53 PM Itachi Uchiha has not yet responded
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Stipes
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 11 (93722)
03-21-2004 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Itachi Uchiha
03-21-2004 5:37 PM


Did you read any of those articles that I posted above?

If you say that the moon and earth are formed simutaneously, then the cores would be about the same. When in fact they aren't. Now I could explain that logic more, but if you read the articles posted they do a good job explaining why, I am too lazy to type why.

And use some basic observational skills. Look at the moons of other planets, and look at their relative size to Earth's moon. Our moon is massive, and there is no way that Earth pulled it in its orbit. There has to be another explaination, and that is planetary collision. Once again, if ANYONE knows if scientists have a number as to when this would happen, I could use that in an argument in the EvC forum.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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DNAunion
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 11 (93723)
03-21-2004 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Itachi Uchiha
03-21-2004 5:37 PM


quote:
I mean the earths form as well as the moon would look something a bit different than a sphere if they had suffered an impact of this magnitude.

An impact that large would have produced so much heat that the Earth and chunk knocked off would have been "molten blobs", which gravity would have formed into spheres.


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Stipes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 11 (93725)
03-21-2004 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Stipes
03-21-2004 5:53 PM


I am really sorry for the double post. Someone asked why I used the word "or" in my first post.

Because I am essentially looking for what I believe in. I have no idea. I am a person that believes heavily in the scientific method but grew up in a pretty religious family.

If the moon collision happened 10's of thousands years ago, then the creationist view of Earth being 6000 years old is kinda correct. Meaning about 6000 years ago it was fit for life.

However if this collision happened later than that, like millions, well looks like carbon dating is accurate and world is older that 6000 years old. This could be a key argument, but I don't know if scientists have the methods to predict when this happened.

But what baffles me is that this system of forces, and chemicals, go towards the upbringing of life. If you look at our solarsystem relative to others discovered, ours is SSSOOO unusual. The fact that the first planetary collision happened to occur at just the right angle to produce a "double wammy" to create the amount of debris necessary to create the moon it is today. Without the moon, we would be completely dead. The moon keeps the earth on its axis, the moon determines tides, the moon helped shield asteroids, and the moon sprouted life.

Everything is set up. It freaks me out. Amino acids and a lot of CO2 due to volcanoes makes phytoplankton. I guess that is how you spell it. The sky is red due to sulfur, suprisingly the frequency of light that optimizes photosynthesis. I could go on and on....I find it hard to believe this is a random system of chemicals that just sprout life. Or maybe I just don't want to believe it. Whatever, now I am rambling. Lates.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 5:53 PM Stipes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 8 by DNAunion, posted 03-21-2004 7:16 PM Stipes has not yet responded
 Message 9 by DNAunion, posted 03-21-2004 7:26 PM Stipes has responded

  
DNAunion
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 11 (93733)
03-21-2004 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stipes
03-21-2004 6:04 PM


quote:
If the moon collision happened 10's of thousands years ago, then the creationist view of Earth being 6000 years old is kinda correct. Meaning about 6000 years ago it was fit for life.

However if this collision happened later than that, like millions, well looks like carbon dating is accurate and world is older that 6000 years old. This could be a key argument, but I don't know if scientists have the methods to predict when this happened.


Oh, I thought you were looking for an "exact" age of the moon. I didn't realize you were looking for a difference between thousands and billions.

The moon was formed about 4 billion years ago. There was a late heavy bombardment (leftovers from the formation of the solar system still slamming into planets and moons) that abated about 3.9 to 3.8 billion years ago and our moon was one of the targets.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 6:04 PM Stipes has not yet responded

  
DNAunion
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 11 (93735)
03-21-2004 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stipes
03-21-2004 6:04 PM


quote:
But what baffles me is that this system of forces, and chemicals, go towards the upbringing of life. ... Without the moon, we would be completely dead.

We? Or life?

quote:
The moon keeps the earth on its axis...

What evidence do we have that such is REQUIRED for the maintenance of life on Earth?

quote:
...the moon determines tides...

And tides are REQUIRED for there to be life on Earth because...?

quote:
...the moon helped shield asteroids...

Helped. The Earth is a bigger target and would have been slammed by more than the Moon would have intercepted.

quote:
...and the moon sprouted life.

What?

[This message has been edited by DNAunion, 03-21-2004]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 6:04 PM Stipes has not yet responded

  
DNAunion
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 11 (93736)
03-21-2004 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Stipes
03-21-2004 6:04 PM


quote:
Everything is set up. It freaks me out. Amino acids and a lot of CO2 due to volcanoes makes phytoplankton.

It does???

quote:
The sky is red due to sulfur, suprisingly the frequency of light that optimizes photosynthesis.

The sky is red??? Looks pretty blue to me. Do [you] mean at [sunset]? That has to do with the angle of light reaching you and how much atmosphere is has to travel through (and therefore, how much scattering occurs). And enough sulfur in the atmosphere to change the color? I doubt it. Our atmosphere is about 78% molecular nitrogen, 21% molecular oxygen, 1% argon, and 0.03% carbon dioxide.

And since photosynthesis as we find it today is the product of billions or years of evolution, it is little wonder that we would find it tuned as it is.

[This message has been edited by DNAunion, 03-21-2004]


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 6:04 PM Stipes has responded

Replies to this message:
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Stipes
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 11 (93737)
03-21-2004 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by DNAunion
03-21-2004 7:26 PM


Its my fault, I wasn't being too clear.

Volcanoes release sulfates. These get into the atmosphere, and with no established cycle for that molecule you get a build up of sulfur in the atmosphere. This makes the sky red.

This supposively happened way back when the Earth was really young. If what you say is true about the formation of the moon being billions of years old, then that means life could be possible for billions of years. Hence this could be a good argument for the evolution point of view. And I finally found what I was looking for. =)

So thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by DNAunion, posted 03-21-2004 7:26 PM DNAunion has not yet responded

  
DNAunion
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 11 (93773)
03-21-2004 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Stipes
03-21-2004 5:53 PM


quote:
Once again, if ANYONE knows if scientists have a number as to when this would happen, I could use that in an argument in the EvC forum.

Found one.

quote:
The modern theory is that the Moon was created by a massive impact with the Earth nearly 4.5 billion years ago. (http://www.adlerplanetarium.org/learn/moon/formation.ssi)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Stipes, posted 03-21-2004 5:53 PM Stipes has not yet responded

  
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