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Author Topic:   No Big Bang--Just gentle whisper
baloneydetector#zero
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 6 (357726)
10-20-2006 12:16 PM


The red shift that we associate with the Big Bang is not caused by the motion of receding galaxies. That notion was extrapolated from regarding that red shift as a doppler effect. If that were truly the case, those distant peripheral galaxies would eventually fall off the edge of your universe to be followed by more galaxies until eventually, ours would be the only one left.
Doesn’t that remind you of the flat earth theory. That was ridiculous and, so is this one. There are other reasons for a red shift in the light of those far flung galaxies. Tired light??? No! How about--
How about the cause being just the result of that galaxy's relative mass which is related to the fact of it’s very great distance from us. How about having a good look at this possibility.
As I sit here, my body’s mass of ugly fat has a 209 pound interaction with this immense ball of matter we call the earth. I can tell that because my chair is sitting on a scale in a very long elevator. I’m on this elevator because wiser men than I tell me that if I rise above the earth, my weight will change. Sure enough, when I press the up button, my weight changes because it’s center of mass is now located further from the center of mass of the earth and that this increase in distance is important in the gravity equation (thanks to those wiser men again).. Now comes, the surprise (to me, if not to those wiser men). When I push the down button so that I start dropping below the surface of the earth, my weight also starts dropping. I’m amazed at this because now, I’m now closer to the center of mass of the earth and this shortened distance should have increased my weight. What has changed. The gravity formula couldn’t have changed. What’s changed is that the center of mass of the earth relative to my new position has changed. Since I’m now immersed within the earth, some of it’s mass is now above me and, some of it is on the side of me. Because of this, it’s mass relative to me seems to have changed. Since mass does not ever change, what has happened is that and it’s distance from me has changed and my weight has changed accordingly.
Let’s get my chair and me back to the surface where I can breath better.
Here, when I look around, I realize that I am an integral part of the earth’s mass. As part of the earth’s mass, our gravitational relationship can be associated to that of our solar system. Strangely, the earth interacts with all the parts of the solar system but, not as individual bodies. It cannot. There is no such thing as a gravity shield so, no body can gravitationally interact only with one or more bodies, it can only gravitationally interact with all other bodies in it’s interactive universe. Since the earth’s solar system neighbors are so close and their gravitational attraction so strong, they apparently disregard the weaker interactions with the rest of their universe. Woops, there goes the multiple body problem. There is never anything but a two-body problem.
A little while ago, I mentioned that the value of a body’s mass never changes. Weight really does not either. It seems to because it moves around and, it’s gravitational relationship to the center-of-mass of the earth can vary. Mass cannot vary because it represents the value of that body’s gravitational relationship to it’s entire interactive universe. All bodies in the universe are attracting that body. This attraction holds that body in one place and provides it with what we call inertia. The value of this inertia is identical to the value of the mass of the body.
Getting back to the earth’s relationship to the solar system, we find that the earth revolves around the center-of-mass of the solar system. This center-of-mass is not fixed at the exact center of the sun. Since the bodies revolving around the sun are not fixed and are of difference masses which are in different orbits, the center of mass of the solar system is always on the move. This is a complex motion which rotates around the center of the sun and does not tend to be perfectly circular. It’s somewhat spiky because of difference orbits and varying locations of the planets. The sun itself also revolves around this center of mass and, because of it’s great mass, it cannot follow these spiky motions. For this reason it tends to regulate the motions of the planets This has a significant affect on the orbits of all members of the solar system. These affect are left to better minds to interpret.
The solar system itself is buried within a galaxy of solar systems. It must also revolve around the center-of-mass of the galaxy.
Getting back to the subject, we live in a universe where our location in it allows us to interact with other objects depending on their relative mass from our point of view. Our local part of our universe can only interact (receive radiation) from remote objects until their relative mass approaches a point where that mass approaches the point where no radiation is allowed to leave it for other locations (us).
As we have learned, gravitational interactions occur between the centers of mass of systems. For instance, the earth's center of mass interacts with not solely with the sun but, with the entire center of mass of the entire solar system. Our solar system's center of mass interacts with our entire galaxy's center of mass. Electromagnetic interactions which have some relation to mass are also sensitive to these relative masses differences. For example, the center of mass of our galaxy and the center of mass of a close galaxy both interact with the center of mass of their interactive universes which nearly occupy the same space. As we compare our galaxy to further and further galaxies, their respective interactive universes start diverging more and more. The greater the divergence, the more the further galaxies center of mass are encompassing parts of the universe with which our galaxy cannot interact.
The parts of the universe with which our galaxy cannot interact with, add apparent mass to the further galaxies. The greater their apparent mass, the greater the red shift caused by this apparent increase in mass. When the relative mass gets too great, no more radiation can be transmitted in our direction.
This red shift is the same in every direction we look in--so I've been told. This fact tells us that there is no apparent end to our universe. It just seems to go on and on.
If there is no doppler affect red shift but instead, we have a relativistic cause to the red shift, then it's apparent to me that we did not have a Big Bang.
So, where did everything come from or has it always been there?
We do know that matter particles are able to pop out of nowhere in pairs (particle and it’s anti-particle). This can be happening everywhere in the universe all the time. It could have been happening since-forever. This type of creation could be likened to a gentle whisper relative to that Big Bang. Besides, it does not need any fancy explanation, we already know it happens. We also know that particle pairs ( a particle, such as an electron, and it’s antiparticle, the positron) can also annihilate each other and, they do. Could this mean that we have a universe which is recycling itself?
--------woops, more honey-dos are necessary and we must pause once more.
Edited by baloneydetector#zero, : Edited to continue posted message.
Edited by baloneydetector#zero, : To add more data.
Edited by baloneydetector#zero, : No reason given.
Edited by baloneydetector#zero, : Asked for by Administrator & to improve readability

baloneydetector#zero

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 10-25-2006 10:36 AM baloneydetector#zero has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13038
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 2 of 6 (358752)
10-25-2006 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by baloneydetector#zero
10-20-2006 12:16 PM


I'll read this if you organize it into readily apparent paragraphs.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by baloneydetector#zero, posted 10-20-2006 12:16 PM baloneydetector#zero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by baloneydetector#zero, posted 10-25-2006 10:40 AM Admin has replied

baloneydetector#zero
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 6 (358756)
10-25-2006 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
10-25-2006 10:36 AM


Will do

baloneydetector#zero

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 10-25-2006 10:36 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 10-25-2006 3:35 PM baloneydetector#zero has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13038
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 4 of 6 (358802)
10-25-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by baloneydetector#zero
10-25-2006 10:40 AM


The last comment that begins with "woops" implies you're not done editing. The thread proposal is already more than long enough, and in fact includes several unnecessary and long digressions. You're just proposing that the sum of the mass of distant galaxies is so great that light doesn't reach us from them, so you could shorten it a lot. But I'll promote it as is if you'll add a summary paragraph that draws all the arguments together and shows how they support your hypothesis.
You've actually set out to find a solution for a problem that isn't perceived to be a problem by science, and your proposal doesn't apply because the mass of distant galaxies on one side of us is balanced by the mass of distant galaxies on the opposite side of us. Your proposal requires a massive asymmetry in the distribution of matter in the universe, for which there is no evidence. But if you'd still like to go ahead with this thread proposal then just add the summary paragraph and I'll promote it.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by baloneydetector#zero, posted 10-25-2006 10:40 AM baloneydetector#zero has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by baloneydetector#zero, posted 10-26-2006 10:42 AM Admin has not replied

baloneydetector#zero
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 6 (358979)
10-26-2006 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
10-25-2006 3:35 PM


Response to Admin's message
Hi Percy. Your right that I wasn't done editing. I've never done this before and I guess i didn't have all my ducks in order when I started.
I hope you realize that expanding something is much easier that abridging it. Shortening something requires me to guess what information is not required for the majority of the readers to understand. Guessing is not my forte.
I will try to add a summary paragraph to explain the first part of the "thread proposal" --No Big Bang-- and leave the second part (Just gentle whisper) till later.
As to trying to find a solution to a non-existant problem--I've got the problem and it sticks in my craw and I've got to assume that others (since I'm not the swiftest fish in the ocean) have too.
Next, I don't think that you understood me either because of your statement:
"and your proposal doesn't apply because the mass of distant galaxies on one side of us is balanced by the mass of distant galaxies on the opposite side of us. Your proposal requires a massive asymmetry in the distribution of matter in the universe, for which there is no evidence"
The mass of the galaxies on the opposite side of us do not enter into the problem. We are talking of an interaction that is strictly between us and a specific far distant galaxy. We are at the almost-extreme edge of that galaxy's interactive universe. It cannot sense the opposing galaxies since we are at the limit of their interacitve range. There could be assymetry but, if there is, it would only mean that we have no way of knowing how far a re-shifted galaxy is from us. It sould be a varyable depending on any mass assymetry.
Thank you for taking the time to read and judge the value of my "thread" (whatever that is).....Bob

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 10-25-2006 3:35 PM Admin has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13038
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 6 of 6 (359017)
10-26-2006 12:19 PM


Thread copied to the No Big Bang--Just gentle whisper thread in the Big Bang and Cosmology forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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