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Author Topic:   Religion does not give a solid basis to morality
mick
Member (Idle past 5007 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 1 of 4 (403689)
06-04-2007 8:50 PM


I often hear religious people (on this board and off it) claiming that religion provides them with a solid foundation for morality and ethics. This situation is contrasted with that of nonreligious people, for whom morality and ethics is supposedly "relativistic".
The implication is always that absolutist morality (i.e. killing another is always wrong) is in some way better than relativistic morality (i.e. killing another is sometimes wrong and sometimes right, depending on the situation).
I never been convinced of the idea that relativistic morality is in any way inferior to absolutist morality. I can appreciate that relativistic morality may have a problem in asserting its legitimacy, but then the absolutist Taliban morality was also seen by many as illegitimate, as is the fundamentalist Christian morality in the US which states the homosexuality is a sin.
But what I really want to challenge is the very notion that religion provides a firm foundation for one's moral or ethical standpoint. Here are some moral pronouncements of people who use the Bible as the solid foundation of their position.
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity supports slavery:
quote:
The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.
Source: quotation from Rev. R. Furman, D.D., a Baptist pastor from South Carolina, 19th century
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity rejects slavery:
quote:
It is important that apologies are expressed for the involvement, and indeed leadership, of our country in that trade and of the institutions of our country, including the Church of England, in perpetuating slavery 200 years ago... I also apologise for the ways in which, 200 years ago, Christians misused Scripture so tragically in defence of the slave trade. That may have something to teach us Christians or members of other religious traditions within our country and our society today.
Source: press report on speech by Bishop Packer, CofE, 21st Century
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity rejects homosexuality:
quote:
Seventh-day Adventists believe that sexual intimacy belongs only within the marital relationship of a man and a woman. This was the design established by God at creation. The Scriptures declare: "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh" (Gen. 2:24, NIV). Throughout Scripture this heterosexual pattern is affirmed. The Bible makes no accommodation for homosexual activity or relationships. Sexual acts outside the circle of a heterosexual marriage are forbidden (Lev. 20:7-21; Rom. 1:24-27; 1 Cor. 6:9-11). Jesus Christ reaffirmed the divine creation intent: "'Haven't you read,' he replied, 'that at the beginning the Creator "made them male and female," and said, "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh?" So they are no longer two, but one'" (Matt. 19:4-6, NIV). For these reasons Adventists are opposed to homosexual practices and relationships.
Source: Seventh Day Adventist church manual
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity celebrates homosexuality:
quote:
Let me share an experience from my own ministry. A priest of mine was approached by two men who wanted to make a declaration of their love and commitment to each other in front of friends and family. They did not know how to do so. I am profoundly happy that the ministry they received through seeing the vicar going on rounds around the shops and in the parish led them to ask what they should do. They did not want a gay wedding in church, they wanted a party, an occasion on which to exchange meaningful and deep-rooted hopes and dreams for their future together. The work done by my parish priest was extremely skilful and she enabled them to achieve what they wanted. I understand that the occasion went extremely well. It was not a marriage. It was not pension rights or any piece of paper that they wanted, it was ministry and dignity that they were seeking. The Church sought to offer them the former. All society should join with the Church”and in some quarters the Church must join with society”in ensuring the latter.
Source: reported statement of John Gladwin, Bishop of Chelmsford
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity is split on homosexuality:
quote:
In a vote at the annual state convention of the church in Minneapolis yesterday, members approved a resolution supporting equal access to the faith for all sexualities and the removal of a prohibition on ”homosexual unions.’
The vote was 496-223 in favour of equality in the denomination "regardless of sexual orientation" and 394-320 supporting a removal of the “prohibition of United Methodist clergy from celebrating homosexual unions."
Source: press report on Methodist convention
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity rejects abortion:
quote:
For us abortion is of overriding concern because it negates two of our most fundamental moral imperatives: respect for innocent life, and preferential concern for the weak and defenseless. As we said three years ago in reaffirming our Pastoral Plan for Pro-Life Activities: "Because victims of abortion are the most vulnerable and defenseless members of the human family, it is imperative that we, as Christians called to serve the least among us, give urgent attention and priority to this issue. Our concern is intensified by the realization that a policy and practice allowing over one and a half million abortions annually cannot but diminish respect for life in other areas." No Catholic can responsibly take a "pro-choice" stand when the "choice" in question involves the taking of innocent human life.
Source: United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
Morality based on the firm foundation of Christianity accepts legal abortion:
quote:
Our belief in the sanctity of unborn human life makes us reluctant to approve abortion. But we are equally bound to respect the sacredness of the life and well-being of the mother, for whom devastating damage may result from an unacceptable pregnancy. In continuity with past Christian teaching, we recognize tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion, and in such cases we support the legal option of abortion under proper medical procedures.
Methodist website
It looks very much like the moral and ethical foundation of religion permits one to believe whatever one chooses! Indeed Christians must collectively have the most relativistic morality around - they simply adopts the prevailing ethic of their time and place and make the bible agree with it.
I would like to know where there is any evidence that religion provides a firm moral foundation for human beings? Why is that even a good thing? And why shouldn't I consider that claim to be the self-serving poppycock that it appears to be?
Edited by AdminAsgara, : fixed link tags

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminCoragyps, posted 06-04-2007 9:19 PM mick has replied

AdminCoragyps
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 4 (403703)
06-04-2007 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
06-04-2007 8:50 PM


Faith and Belief? Or somewhere else?
And you have a hanging tag there that I'm unsure how to fix.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by mick, posted 06-04-2007 8:50 PM mick has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by mick, posted 06-04-2007 10:26 PM AdminCoragyps has not replied

mick
Member (Idle past 5007 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 3 of 4 (403721)
06-04-2007 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminCoragyps
06-04-2007 9:19 PM


Hi Coragyps,
Please post where you see fit, Faith & Belief sounds good to me.
Mick

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminCoragyps, posted 06-04-2007 9:19 PM AdminCoragyps has not replied

AdminCoragyps
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 4 (403725)
06-04-2007 10:27 PM


Thread copied to the Religion does not give a solid basis to morality thread in the Faith and Belief forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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