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Author Topic:   When God said day did he mean an actually 24hour day?
youwerecreatedbyjc
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Posts: 1925
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1 of 21 (56711)
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day? Share your opinions here. Please provide evidence for your claim.
Thanks.

------------------
"I AM THE MESSENJAH"

contact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-20-2003]

[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 09-20-2003]


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Yaro
Member (Idle past 5124 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 2 of 21 (56714)
09-20-2003 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


Yes, I think it litteraly means 24 hour days. Because it clearly says things along the lines of "and it was evening and morning on the X day..." etc.

Also, if it were Biblical "ages" which some see as a way to rationalize scientific findings with the bible acounts, you will notice that the animals were created in the wrong order for the fossil record. Not only that, but he creates light before there is a sun and moon, and a bunch of other wierd things that don't quite go together.

[This message has been edited by Yaro, 09-20-2003]


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Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3831
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 3 of 21 (56721)
09-20-2003 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
It would seem that it was a solar day. I don't say "24 hour day", in that the convential scientific wisdom is that the Earth's rotation rate in slowing, and a solar day has gotten shorter down through time.

Anyhow, this assumes the Bible is the accurate and precise record of what "God said", something which I very much doubt is the case.

Moose


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joz
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 21 (56722)
09-20-2003 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
My opinion?

God doesn't exsist so arguing about what some bronze age semitic shamans atributed to a ficticious surce is pointless....

Evidence for this is the absolute dearth of evidence for the exsistence of God, so in the same way that I don't believe in giant lime green giants that cause supernovas when they fart I do not believe in God.....

Putting aside the issue of Gods putative exsistence for a moment if God did exsist the options are as I see it twofold...

1)God created everything on a 6-7 day timescale with an appearance of age, he is therefore attempting to decieve us and cannot be the God of the bible as an omnibenevolent being would not willfully decieve...

2)God created everything but that creation is not literally described in Genesis which is either allegory or mistakes were made by the human authors, the physical data we gather shows us the timescales involved...

If I were a Xtian I would eliminate possibility 1) as it would contradict my ideas of an omnibenevolent God....

Ergo if I where a believer it would have to be 2) that God did not mean a 24 hour day....


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NosyNed
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Posts: 8948
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 5 of 21 (56724)
09-21-2003 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Minnemooseus
09-20-2003 11:17 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
I don't say "24 hour day", in that the convential scientific wisdom is that the Earth's rotation rate in slowing, and a solar day has gotten shorter down through time.

Uh, oops. if the rotation is slowing the day is longer.

And it is by the way. If my memory is right the day is a small number of hours longer than when the dinosaurs lived.

[This message has been edited by NosyNed, 09-20-2003]


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Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3831
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 6 of 21 (56727)
09-21-2003 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
09-21-2003 12:29 AM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
Your right. That's what I intended to say, not what I did say.

As I recall, the year was determined to be about 400 days back in the Devonian (approx. 400 million years ago). This was determined by studying daily and annual growth ring paterns in corals.

Anyhow, (365.25 d/y / 400 d/y ) x 24 hr/d = 22 hr/d back in the Devonian.

IF you project that back linearly, that would make the day about 19 hours 1 billion years ago (bya), 14 hours 2 bya, 9 hours 3 bya, 4 hours 4 bya, and 1.5 hours 4.5 bya.

Now, I'll stop, and give everone a chance to say "Who cares".

Moose


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Dr Cresswell
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 21 (56750)
09-21-2003 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
I tend to go for "day" in the Genesis 1 account to be the period between dawn and dusk (which is, to an extent, hinted at in the "evening and morning" references). That is, it is the period of time when, without modern electric lighting, it was actually possible to do work.

I'd also say that the Genesis 1 account is not a literal historical account of creation so I feel no need to try and reinterpret the meaning of the word "day" to fit into any particular scientific description.

Alan


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Brian
Member (Idle past 3587 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 8 of 21 (56755)
09-21-2003 6:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
HI M,

The word used for day in Genesis 1 is 'Yom', in the majority of cases it means a literal 24 hour day.

One argument for a longer than 24 hour day is that the 7th day has not had an evening yet so we are still having the 7th day.

I think the 24 hour day is literal, the authors of the bible weren't intelligent enough to be so abstract. They meant 24 hour day because that was what they knew from experience.

There may be a problem with Genesis 2:4 of course, when everything is created in one day.

Brian.


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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 4866 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 9 of 21 (56808)
09-21-2003 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Brian
09-21-2003 6:41 AM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
To assert that the authors of the Song of the Sea and Psalms "weren't intelligent enough to be so abstract" seems pretty arrogant and pretentious. When do you suppose the species became "intelligent enough" to employ absraction?

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Brian
Member (Idle past 3587 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 10 of 21 (56815)
09-21-2003 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ConsequentAtheist
09-21-2003 5:59 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
Hi CA,

In regard to the Song of the Sea, everything in the song looks concrete to me, I see nothing abstract in it at all, it is written in language that is easy to understand, everyone reading it is perfectly aware of what the messages are.

For example 'The horse and its rider he has hurled into the sea' concrete, literal undertsanding.

and 'Pharaoh's chariots and his army he has hurled into the sea. The best of Pharaoh's officers are drowned in the Red Sea. The deep waters have covered them; they sank to the depths like a stone'.

Nothing abstract there, could you give an example or two of what you think is abstract in the Song of the Sea?

You would need to be a bit more specific on the pslams.

On awareness of abstraction, I'd say that we would be looking at Renaissance Italy 1400-ish before abstarct concepts were becoming understood, anachronisms for example and an awareness of a sense of the past.

The authors of the Bible wrote in concrete terms, our much superior intellect simply places abstract concepts onto ancient myths that isn't really there, a bit Kantian, but true nontheless. Of course it isn't every modern day reader who is capable of separating ideology from reality.

Brian.


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ConsequentAtheist
Member (Idle past 4866 days)
Posts: 392
Joined: 05-28-2003


Message 11 of 21 (56819)
09-21-2003 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Brian
09-21-2003 6:38 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
our much superior intellect ...

Sig Heil!

[This message has been edited by ConsequentAtheist, 09-21-2003]


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Brian
Member (Idle past 3587 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 12 of 21 (56825)
09-21-2003 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by ConsequentAtheist
09-21-2003 7:01 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
Hi CA,

Sig (sic) Heil

Hmm, very disapponted CA, I thought you were above that.

Brian.

PS, Don't waste your time replying.


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zephyr
Member (Idle past 3178 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 13 of 21 (56848)
09-21-2003 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Minnemooseus
09-21-2003 12:58 AM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
How far back can linear extrapolation give useful results? Wouldn't we expect more of an exponential decline in the angular velocity?

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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3831
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 14 of 21 (56883)
09-22-2003 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by zephyr
09-21-2003 11:30 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
I have no real idea of the proper way to project that backward. I do suspect it would not be linear. I just thought I'd see where it might end up, if projected back to 4.5 bya. When I started crunching the numbers, I actually suspected the 4.5 bya day was going to turn out to be a negative number - well it didn't.

Quoting myself:

quote:
IF you project that back linearly, that would make the day about 19 hours 1 billion years ago (bya), 14 hours 2 bya, 9 hours 3 bya, 4 hours 4 bya, and 1.5 hours 4.5 bya.

I very deliberatly made that IF in all capitol letters - as in the "big if".

I've done no research on the "why". Atmospheric drag and tidal affects?

Moose


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Dr Jack
Member (Idle past 733 days)
Posts: 3507
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 15 of 21 (56899)
09-22-2003 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-20-2003 9:18 PM


Re: When God said day did he mean an actual 24hour day?
I think that the creators of the Genesis myth meant a literal day, (as in day-night, not 24 hr day). However it does say in the bible that 'a thousand years is as a day to the LORD' so the a thousand year interpretation must have some credibility.

Brian, on what basis do you infer our intellect to be much superior?


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