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Author Topic:   The real mountain of Yahweh
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4662
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 1 of 24 (196389)
04-03-2005 10:33 AM


I'd like to know if anyone knows as to whether Ron Wyatt's "Mt Sinai" site has been investigated. This is NOT a topic about Wyatt's credibility. That is for the specific reason that I genuinely require the truth as to whether it is possible that this site in Arabia is the real Mt. Sinai.

A column was found with inscription in archaic Hebrew , and the site has apprently many evidences including an altar with a petroglyph of a golden calf;


Click to enlarge

With so many instances matching up withe the biblical account, is there anything in this? I'm interested in other possible Sinai sites other than the traditional place. Surely these photographs aren't fake? Or maybe taken somewhere else? WHy the Hebrew writing? Why the altar and twelve pillars? And the locals knowing it to mean the place of Moses? (according to website)

It seems I've been told there was no evidence of any Exodus or Hebrews coming from Egypt, but is this evidence of dwellings? What is it evidence of? We are obviously looking at something here are we not?

Ron Wyatt museum writes:

there was no doubt as to the location of Mt. Sinai being in Arabia.

Here is the location for the "real" Sinai site. (according to the site)

Ron Wyatt museum writes:

If we go the Bible, the location of Mt. Sinai is not that difficult to ascertain. When God first spoke to Moses regarding the great work of leading the people out of their Egyptian bondage, He told Moses:
" Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain."
.......EXODUS 3:12

To find out exactly where Moses was when this conversation took place, we need to go to the beginning of chapter 3:

"Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb. And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."
.......EXODUS 3:1-2

Moses was even told to remove his shoes, as he was standing on "holy ground" (verse 5). So, we now know that Moses was in Midian, in the "backside of the desert", which seems to us to imply the area opposite the main portion of the desert or, the other side of the mountain which provided the border of the desert. We make this assumption simply because in order to have a "backside of the desert", there must be something which marks a separation of the "frontside" and the "backside".

When Ron studied the Biblical account, he noted these references - that the mountain to which Moses was to lead the people was in Midian; and that the place where Moses spoke to God in the burning bush was specifically stated to be in the "backside of the desert". With this information, along with the discovery of the crossing site on the Gulf of Aqaba, he looked for a mountain on the eastern side of the gulf which fit this description. There was only one candidate in his opinion, and this was Jebel el Lawz.

Now Ron enters Saudi Arabia thus;

And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
.......EXODUS 24:4

Sinai site, with evidences;

List of evidences;

A = Saudi Guard House
B = Altar with Petroglyphs
C = Remains of 12 Pillars
D = Large Altar at the foot of Mt. Sinai
e = Red Lines mark Wells
e = Aqua Lines mark Stone Fences

Hut circles


Click to enlarge

Altar and Corral
Located directly beneath, or
"under" the high peak of Sinai

Here is the story

This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 04-03-2005 09:35 AM

Edited by AdminJar to size pictures.

This message has been edited by AdminJar, 04-03-2005 09:44 AM


Replies to this message:
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 24 (196419)
04-03-2005 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
04-03-2005 10:33 AM


Mike, where do you want these chesnuts placed?
Most of the Wyatt stuff has been hashed over numerous times but if you want to run through it again, where would you like them placed? Respond here and I'll promote both this and the Ark of the Covenant thread.


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This message is a reply to:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4662
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 3 of 24 (196424)
04-03-2005 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminJar
04-03-2005 12:24 PM


Re: Mike, where do you want these chesnuts placed?
I would say miscellaneous or bible forum. Wherever you think best.

I know the Wyatt stuff is done, but I promise I'm more interested in the Arabia claim, and the real Sinai.


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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 24 (196426)
04-03-2005 12:28 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 5 of 24 (196436)
04-03-2005 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
04-03-2005 10:33 AM


The petroglyphs ...
are a great example of why there is little reason to even acknowledge Wyatts claims. Using them as an example is yet another one of Ron Wyatts selective dishonesty tactics.

First, such drawings are common throughout the area and extending all the way across the Mediterranean both north and south of the sea.

Second, Ron Wyatt is very dishonest in how and what he presents. One good example is the cattle you included. It is only one of many, many drawings in the same area. When you see all of the drawings though, what you find is that a variety of people and critters are included. In addition, many that he identifies as cattle are actually of goats, Ibex and other animals that were common in the area.

Here are some examples.




Note:the above is identified by Wyatt as typically Egyptian in form... but when seen in context you can see that the picture of the person is not really related to the critter and in fact is a phalic symbol which Wyatts's folk touched up to change the context.

Every other point that Wyatt brings up in his Sinai fiction suffers from similar problems. The images themselves date from long before the Exodus was supposed to happen, very near the Creation date as YECs see it. They are but old pictoglyphs.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4662
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 6 of 24 (196438)
04-03-2005 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
04-03-2005 12:46 PM


Re: The petroglyphs ...
Thanks for those amazing picture Jar.

Would you say that these petroglphs were from other people in the are, of other religion that pre-date any Exodus?

I understand why you would call this Wyatt's fantasy, and I thought the pictures shown were a bit selective, but what about the Hebrew inscriptions and other factors? The twelve pillars, and the picture showing and explaining the whole site, apparently as told of in the bible?

Please feel free to produce any juicy pics. :) Do you know of any other possible Sinai sites? (my knowledge is zero :()


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jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 7 of 24 (196442)
04-03-2005 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by mike the wiz
04-03-2005 12:55 PM


Re: The petroglyphs ...
They are definitely from folk that pre-dated the Exodus (if there ever was an Exodus) and by many, many millenia. They don't seem to have a specific religious affiliation (ie: not related to any known religion) but do show definite signs of at a minimum, some hunting culture and fertility culture.

Despite Wyatt's claim that they are unusual, the fact is they are very common (just as they are throughout the southwest US and even the British Isles, and seem to date back to stone age cultures, hunter gatherers. If you check Google, you'll find that quite a few tour agencies offer package tours all over the area that includes trips to see similar petroglyphs in Arabia, Ethiopia, Egypt, Sudan, Tunisia, Lybia, Greece and on and on.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4662
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 8 of 24 (196445)
04-03-2005 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
04-03-2005 1:04 PM


Re: The petroglyphs ...
Thanks.

I like the petroglyphs, but especially I desire the Ark of the covenant. Do you know where it is, can I have a look at it? ;)

What really excites me is Jewish ancients writings, inscriptions that actually mention Yahweh. These aren't proves, but they show the history of Judaism, and this fascinates me.

I suppose your point about them bein around the place a lot is valid. This was the fundamental flaw with Ron's Ark shaped (Noah's)natural phenomenon. I felt I'd been lied to when the guys at EvC infact shown me that there are many ark-shaped natural anomolies.

So am I spotting a consistent failure to divulge the full information?


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jar
Member
Posts: 31764
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 9 of 24 (196446)
04-03-2005 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by mike the wiz
04-03-2005 1:10 PM


Re: The petroglyphs ...
So am I spotting a consistent failure to divulge the full information?

I honestly think what you are seeing is a constant failure of Ron Wyatt to see anything beyond what he has decided to see. When you combine that with a refusal to present any of his evidence for independant analysis, there is a pattern.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 4361 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 10 of 24 (196455)
04-03-2005 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
04-03-2005 12:46 PM


one man's phallus is another man's...
the picture of the person is not really related to the critter and in fact is a phalic symbol which Wyatts's folk touched up to change the context.

This immediately reminded me of a heated argument I heard once on public radio - a professor of ancient cultures was trying to explain to a fundamentalist "scholar" that the earliest known use of the "Jesus fish" symbol was within pre-Christian culture as a symbol of female fertility. The "Jesus fish" is actually a turned-on-its-side pictographical representation of female genitals (according to the professor). The fundamentalist scholar of course denounced the heresy, claiming that the symbol obviously originated with Jesus himself.

I wondered to myself if this co-opting was another example of organized Christianity trying to cover-up/assimilate what might be viewed as anti-Christian (as in the supposed scheduling of Christmas to replace pagan holidays).

In any case, it is nice that so many perverts are willing to label themselves as such by affixing images of female genitals to the back of their cars for all to see...

It seems Wyatt may continue this trend with his apparent interpretation of "penis" as "worshipper".


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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2332 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 11 of 24 (196563)
04-03-2005 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mike the wiz
04-03-2005 10:33 AM


Hi, Mike, if you are inferring the Hebrew writing was engraved at the same time as the Golden Calf, shouldn`t it be in hieroglyphics/hieratics because the written script wasn`t in existence then. After the Six Day War, didn`t Israeli archaeologists crawl all over the Sinai (after all, it is THEIR history)? Results=nil.

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Angeldust
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 24 (196754)
04-04-2005 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Nighttrain
04-03-2005 9:16 PM


Really off-topic question
Any recommendations on where to find good information on the six day war?

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Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 2332 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 13 of 24 (196781)
04-04-2005 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Angeldust
04-04-2005 8:37 PM


Re: Really off-topic question
Hi, AD, you want the Six Day War or the Israeli search?

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contracycle
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 24 (196850)
04-05-2005 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by mike the wiz
04-03-2005 1:10 PM


Re: The petroglyphs ...
quote:

I like the petroglyphs, but especially I desire the Ark of the covenant. Do you know where it is, can I have a look at it?

Yes, it's in Ethiopia, allegedly, and no you cannot see it, as it curses those who look upon it.

Edit: cattle do not have outward-turning horns, as far as I am aware. I think its an antelope.

This message has been edited by contracycle, 04-05-2005 03:45 AM


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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2266 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 15 of 24 (196946)
04-05-2005 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by pink sasquatch
04-03-2005 1:35 PM


Re: one man's phallus is another man's...
hahaha. now i want to get a jesus fish and turn it upright lol.

This message is a reply to:
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