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Author Topic:   Creation of the Earth v.s. creation of man
HIStory
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 57 (63815)
11-01-2003 1:51 PM


Shalom:

Hello everybody!
As I was studying, a revelation came to me, (Praise Gd). There seems to be a bit of confusion about the age of the earth. When speaking about the age of the earth, many people are stating that the earth is only 6,000 years old. They start with The Creation of Adam and Eve.
There are two very important facts here, to prove that the earth is older than 6,000 years.
1. The Genealogy, (Creation of man), is not the same thing as creation of the Earth. If man were the same age as the Earth, then there would be One Day of Creation instead of 6 Days, (for everything would have been created on the same day). The Heavens and the Earth were created first and man was the last of Gd's Creation.
Please see following chart for further explanation:

Order of Creation Account- (Genesis 1:1-2:4)
*Day 1- Light (Light and Darkness)
*Day 2- Sky and Water
*Day 3- Seas and the Land
*Day 4- Sun, Moon, and Stars
*Day 5- Fish and birds
*Day 6- Animals, Man and Woman
*Day 7- Sacred Day of Rest (Shabbat, Sabbath)

Given the acount of the Order of Creation, man was created last. This would mean that the Earth itself is actually older than man.

Genesis 5 states the Geneaology from Adam to Noah. This account only gives the birthday of man, not the account of the Earth. Again, please remember that the Heavens and the Earth, (The Universe) was created all before man was created. The 6,000 year creation of the Earth account is inaccurate. To be more accurate, the (little under 6,000 year of the birth of man, (not the Earth) account is more accurate.
So, the birth of man is a little under 6,000 years, but the Earth is older.

Gd bless in Messiah!


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Brian, posted 11-01-2003 2:49 PM HIStory has responded
 Message 4 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-18-2005 7:43 PM HIStory has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3216 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 2 of 57 (63822)
11-01-2003 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by HIStory
11-01-2003 1:51 PM


Hi, nice to meet you.

A small comment on this:

So, the birth of man is a little under 6,000 years, but the Earth is older.

According to the myth yes the Earth is older, it is five days older. However, to say that humans have only been around for 6000 years is contrary to EVERY shred of evidence available to us.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by HIStory, posted 11-01-2003 1:51 PM HIStory has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by HIStory, posted 05-18-2005 6:47 PM Brian has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Tal, posted 05-24-2005 3:16 PM Brian has responded

    
HIStory
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 57 (209471)
05-18-2005 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Brian
11-01-2003 2:49 PM


Hi Brian
I finally logged in and read your post. Sorry it took so long. I was just wondering about your response and man being here much longer than 6,000 years. Can you state your resources?

Catch you later,
Shalom (Peace)


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 57 (209483)
05-18-2005 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by HIStory
11-01-2003 1:51 PM


Let me get this straight.

First light was created, then the earth was created, and THEN the sun was created. The earth gets light from the sun. This story cannot be literally accurate.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 235 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 5 of 57 (209484)
05-18-2005 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by HIStory
05-18-2005 6:47 PM


Can you state your resources?

yes. egyptian and sumerian records go back to nearly 5000 bc.

and we have evidence that man existed for sometime without the ability to write.


אָרַח

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Dead Parrot
Member (Idle past 1602 days)
Posts: 151
From: Wellington, NZ
Joined: 04-13-2005


Message 6 of 57 (209495)
05-18-2005 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by HIStory
05-18-2005 6:47 PM


A bit over 6000...
Depending on your definition, I think the Australian Aboriginies might have the edge over the Sumerians for earliest writing:
quote:
The oldest cylcon/message stone found in a dateable archaeological context is about 20,000 years old... With the earliest rock-carvings and paintings, the cylcons represent the oldest form of communication and art; and they represent the oldest religion still observed.

From the Schoyen Collection


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 235 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 7 of 57 (209506)
05-18-2005 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Dead Parrot
05-18-2005 8:13 PM


Re: A bit over 6000...
hey, i never knew that. interesting.

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Tal
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 8 of 57 (210896)
05-24-2005 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Brian
11-01-2003 2:49 PM


Not EVERY.

Population Statistics?

Interestingly enough world population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe doesn't have space to hold so many bodies.
Creation Evidences Museum *don't have the website available*

Breakdown of Human Population since Jesus Christ.

250 million in 0 A.D.

1 billion in 1804,
2 billion in 1927 (123 years later)
3 billion in 1960 (33 years)
4 billion in 1974 (13 years)
5 billion in 1987 (12 years)
6 billion in 1999 (12 years)
7 billion in 2013 (14 years - projected)
8 billion in 2028 (15 years - projected)
10.7 (high) or 8.9 (middle) or 7.3 (low) billion projected for 2050
http://www.overpopulation.org/faq.html


I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it.
www.1st-vets.us

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 05-24-2005 3:30 PM Tal has responded
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Alasdair
Member (Idle past 4006 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 9 of 57 (210897)
05-24-2005 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tal
05-24-2005 3:16 PM


Oh my, you've got to be kidding me. If population statistics worked that way, that would mean that bacteria could take over every single cubic inch of the earth in less than a week :)

I suppose according to your logic, the earth is only about a week old!


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15383
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 10 of 57 (210898)
05-24-2005 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tal
05-24-2005 3:16 PM


You can't seriously suggest that that is evidence.

It's just a case of Garbage in Garbage out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tal, posted 05-24-2005 3:16 PM Tal has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 11 of 57 (210912)
05-24-2005 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by PaulK
05-24-2005 3:30 PM


World population growth peaked at about two percent per year in the early 1960s. Latest population figures indicate that the rate of growth has slowed to 1.33 percent annually, equivalent to 78 million people a year. UNFPA 1999

World Population website seems to concur.


I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it.
www.1st-vets.us

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MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 4610 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 12 of 57 (210914)
05-24-2005 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tal
05-24-2005 3:16 PM


Population statistics
Creation Evidences Museum *don't have the website available*

Try item 4 here.

You haven't really thought this through have you ?

Fortunately for you somebody else not quite so gullible has. If you run the numbers using the values specified by Creation Evidences Museum they don't give the values you quote in your second box, or anything even in the same ballpark.

I especially like the observation that the Egyptians must have built the Pyramids using less than 1000 people :)

And the fact that your favoured hypothesis gives the number of people alive when Christ was born as 681,835 - care to explain the discrepancy with the 250 million your second quote says were alive then ? ROTFLMAO

What is really really interesting is that the numbers quoted by your Creation Evidences Museum do indeed come up with six billion in the present day. That means whoever originally came up with this claim was capable of doing the math. Maybe they were too sloppy, too lazy or too stupid to do a sanity check to see whether the populations were sensible at various intermediate points in history. Then again, maybe they did a sanity check but decided to ignore it 'cos the claim is obviously good enough to sucker gullible people who don't check what's in front of them.

Note that the formula for calculating the population is given in the rebuttal article I linked to (unlike in any of the Creationist sites where you can find this horseshit).

If you want to dispute the formula or the results all you have to do is show your working :)

ABE: *by* Creation Evidences Museum typo

This message has been edited by MangyTiger, 05-24-2005 04:15 PM


Oops! Wrong Planet

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Tal
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 13 of 57 (210915)
05-24-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Alasdair
05-24-2005 3:24 PM


Oh my, you've got to be kidding me. If population statistics worked that way, that would mean that bacteria could take over every single cubic inch of the earth in less than a week
I suppose according to your logic, the earth is only about a week old!

Except we don't have accurate statistics of bacteria. We do of human population.


I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it.
www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Alasdair, posted 05-24-2005 3:24 PM Alasdair has not yet responded

    
Tal
Member (Idle past 3934 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 14 of 57 (210916)
05-24-2005 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by MangyTiger
05-24-2005 4:11 PM


Re: Population statistics
Note that the formula for calculating the population is given in the rebuttal article I linked to (unlike in any of the Creationist sites where you can find this horseshit).

You'll note I also quoted actuall population statstics from http://www.overpopulation.org/faq.htmlwhich is hardly a creationist website.


I may not agree with what you say, But I will die defending your right to say it.
www.1st-vets.us

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by MangyTiger, posted 05-24-2005 4:11 PM MangyTiger has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15383
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 15 of 57 (210919)
05-24-2005 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Tal
05-24-2005 4:10 PM


It's not evidence that humans have been around only 6000 years. It's just selective use of data to make an invalid extrapolation.

I suppose if we used a period where the population growth was negative you'd accept that as evidence we didn't exist ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Tal, posted 05-24-2005 4:10 PM Tal has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Tal, posted 05-24-2005 4:29 PM PaulK has responded
 Message 22 by Tal, posted 05-25-2005 9:07 AM PaulK has responded

    
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