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Author Topic:   Janitorialism-what to do
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 22 (402458)
05-27-2007 5:11 AM


Janitors must have a special place in Heaven.
Janitors. male or female, are products of neglect by our societies. These young people come out of homes where physical, non-mentally challenging labour has occurred. They are basically forced from their environment to the boiler rooms.
The societal response to these neglected, ill-educated people is rather strange. We create them and then use their bathrooms and hallways to further dirty what our sons and daughters have already cleaned. We do provide social services on occasion but most of our response is negative. We drive them to a lifestyle of mops and scrubbing under sinks and use policies to try to hide our own shame in a forgotten break room.
What should people do. Having created this trade, should we now piss in public and abuse them more or should we let them starve or find some other demeaning activity in order to live.
Are we paying them for our gratification or is the payment to ease our conscience for creating them.
Do some of us vomit in the hall with compassion because we recognize that they are our creation? Or am I trying to justify their existence. In countries where poverty is rampant and children are sold by their own parents, can it be said that this is good in order to maintain a family structure. Is it okay to go to some of these places of poverty and shit in their toilets. Not availing ourselves of this product do we help the country to stay poor.
The same weird situation exists where any labour occurs. If we do not buy the pizza cooked by the eighteen year old, does his family then go hungry.
There is good and evil in everything, can we clear up the view of this problem and know the best course of action?
Does survival of the fittest include the ability to use and abuse our public bathrooms. We tend to continue with these unsightly customs regardless of the wealth of a given nation. Would wealth and education put an end to these practices? It appears not.
Question for debate.
Is it better to vomit in the middle of the floor so they can clean it up to help them survive, or is there a better way.
Please do not say things like holding it in without telling us how.
Impossible solutions are not solutions.
Regards
Jon

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by anglagard, posted 05-27-2007 5:59 AM Jon has replied
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 05-27-2007 10:31 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 8 by nator, posted 05-27-2007 10:58 AM Jon has replied
 Message 9 by crashfrog, posted 05-27-2007 12:08 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 22 by riVeRraT, posted 06-04-2007 11:33 AM Jon has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 2 of 22 (402462)
05-27-2007 5:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
05-27-2007 5:11 AM


What the Hell Are You Talking About?
I worked as a janitor for seven years, mostly self-employed, so what?
As an ill-educated person, I am curious if anyone else has 367 semester units of college?
Edited by anglagard, : spelin, must provide example

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 5:11 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 6:08 AM anglagard has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 22 (402463)
05-27-2007 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by anglagard
05-27-2007 5:59 AM


Re: What the Hell Are You Talking About?
I worked as a janitor for seven years, mostly self-employed, so what?
A self-employed janitor? I don't believe it. No one would choose to be a janitor as a means of making money. It's too dirty and degrading; I'm sure you were forced into your line of work by societal ills and injustices. I myself have done a little cleaning here and there, and am well aware of how much I hate it, and how much everyone else must hate it too. I'm so sure they hate it, that I think there should be laws against doing it for money.
Any takers? Who knows Congress' phone number? We should set some policy in place today!
Jon
Edited by Jon, : Corrected that title ;-)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by anglagard, posted 05-27-2007 5:59 AM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by anglagard, posted 05-27-2007 6:12 AM Jon has replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 4 of 22 (402464)
05-27-2007 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
05-27-2007 6:08 AM


Re: What the Hell Are You Talking About?
Hey, I worked as an independent contractor for lawyers, accountants, and real estate people. No boss but them, and it put me through college (somewhat). I'm not complaining, why are you?
Edited by anglagard, : correct that title

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 6:08 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 7:00 AM anglagard has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 22 (402466)
05-27-2007 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by anglagard
05-27-2007 6:12 AM


Re: What the Hell Are You Talking About?
Hey, I worked as an independent contractor for lawyers, accountants, and real estate people. No boss but them, and it put me through college (somewhat). I'm not complaining, why are you?
You can say you are not complaining all you want, but everyone here knows that those people exploited you, because that is the only thing that can happen to janitors”exploitation. The fact that the money you got put you through college doesn't make it any less exploitative or respectable.
It should be society's job to save you from your self-destructive behaviour, because believe it or not, what you've done was not good for you. If your 'profession' had been illegal, you would've been able to get a better job that you were not qualified for and could've not made even more money than the squibbles you got janitoring yourself out to lawyers, accountants, and other high-paid people who requested your services.
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by anglagard, posted 05-27-2007 6:12 AM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 05-27-2007 7:41 AM Jon has not replied

  
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 6 of 22 (402467)
05-27-2007 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Jon
05-27-2007 7:00 AM


Bad Parody
Jon,
I understand what you are doing, but it is a bad example. If you have a point to make concerning prostitution, make it in the prostitution thread.
You should let people know this isn't a serious discussion. It causes problems when one person is spoofing and another is trying to have a serious discussion.
I will close this thread if I find it is causing undo tension and/or you are abusing the participants.
Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.
Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.
Thank you Purple

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 7:00 AM Jon has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 7 of 22 (402477)
05-27-2007 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
05-27-2007 5:11 AM


Jon, clearly you know nothing about janitors and you're letting your own disdain for them cloud your mind.
Some of them might not have much formal education, but many of them are among the most intelligent people I have met. They also tend to be honest, independent, hard-working and proud of their work.
Many of them are immigrants who are working as janitors as a second job, so their children will have the education to get "better" jobs and have an easier life than their parents. In some cases, their first jobs are highly skilled.
For that matter, janitorial work requires a wide variety of skills and training (most of which is on-the-job). An active mind is also a requirement.
Most of the janitors I have known are treated with respect by the people they work for - often even with genuine affection. (Because of the "intimacy" of their work, they are almost like pseudo-family members.)
Other than poor wages, bad hours and the occasional unpleasant task, there is little to say against janitorial work. It compares favorably to office drudgery.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 5:11 AM Jon has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 8 of 22 (402479)
05-27-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
05-27-2007 5:11 AM


Why didn't you choose "Mariana Islands sweatshop workers" instead of janitors?
That is a far better example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 5:11 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 05-28-2007 12:15 AM nator has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 9 of 22 (402489)
05-27-2007 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
05-27-2007 5:11 AM


You know, the more a janitor charges for his services, the more likely it is that cleaning floors is going to happen at his, not the client's, discretion.
In feudal Japan there was a tradition of Jan-ni-to, expensive "janitors" who were more like paid decorators. Only the lowest-ranked Ja-ni-to would be expected to clean floors. The greatest Jan-ni-to gained great notariety for their skills at flower arranging, dusting, and running the floor buffer, hands-free, guided only by their big, Buddha-like stomachs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 05-27-2007 5:11 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 22 (402559)
05-28-2007 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by nator
05-27-2007 10:58 AM


That is a far better example.
Example? Example of what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by nator, posted 05-27-2007 10:58 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Taz, posted 05-28-2007 10:48 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 12 by nator, posted 05-28-2007 2:16 PM Jon has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 11 of 22 (402575)
05-28-2007 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
05-28-2007 12:15 AM


Jon writes:
Example? Example of what?
Hey, Jon, I don't mean to jump into your little conversation here, but I have to say that this is playing dumb at its best that you are doing. Read Schraf's message again and make sure to quote the whole thing rather than half the message... you know, the half that doesn't make any sense without the other half.


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 05-28-2007 12:15 AM Jon has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 12 of 22 (402582)
05-28-2007 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
05-28-2007 12:15 AM


Why didn't you choose "Mariana Islands sweatshop workers" instead of janitors?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 05-28-2007 12:15 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Percy, posted 05-28-2007 5:30 PM nator has not replied
 Message 15 by Jon, posted 05-29-2007 12:35 AM nator has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 13 of 22 (402590)
05-28-2007 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
05-28-2007 2:16 PM


nator writes:
Why didn't you choose "Mariana Islands sweatshop workers" instead of janitors?
I hope this is an attempt to spoof the spoof.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 05-28-2007 2:16 PM nator has not replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 14 of 22 (402594)
05-28-2007 6:44 PM


It is obvious that Jon's thread is not really about sanitation engineers, prostitutes, or sweatshop workers. He is addressing the lowly status and incessant abuse of forum administrators, but is disguising his true objective in parody to protect those beleaguered, disenfranchised souls.

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 22 (402625)
05-29-2007 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by nator
05-28-2007 2:16 PM


You said that sweatshop workers would be a better example. The topic is about janitors. I'm confuzzled as to how sweatshop workers is a better example of janitors. So, I thought either you didn't know what the hell was going on, or you were thinking of an example of some thing, that thing not necessarily being”nor being related to”janitors. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed the latter, hence my question:
'Example of what?'
Janitors are an example of janitors
Sweatshop workers are an example of ... ?
An honest, non-snide, non-self-righteous, non-'Natorian' answer would be appreciated this time.
Thanks,
Jon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by nator, posted 05-28-2007 2:16 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by nator, posted 05-29-2007 8:46 AM Jon has replied

  
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