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Author Topic:   Your favourite Bible absurdity
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 1 of 159 (37202)
04-17-2003 7:23 AM


Most of us know that the Bible was written for relatively uneducated people who lived in a prescientific age. The Bible has some excellent literature within it, epic poems, exciting myths, one or two catchy songs, and even some erotica for those that are that way inclined.
But within this wonderful tapestry lies some extremely funny verses, some that are so absurd that you really do need to laugh.
For me personally, the Bible absurdity that I like best is Exodus 17:14
"Then the LORD said to Moses, "Write this on a scroll as something to be remembered and make sure that Joshua hears it, because I will completely blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven."
I would hazard a guess and claim that the only place that the vast majority of people have heard of Amalek is actually in the Bible!
So our mighty Lord has made sure that the memory of Amalek is in fact guaranteed to live forever, in God's inspired book!
What is your favourite bible absurdity?

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 2 of 159 (37208)
04-17-2003 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
04-17-2003 7:23 AM


When discussing with those who believe the Penteteuch was written by Moses, this is my favorite:
Deu 34:5 So Moses the servant of the Lord died...
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 3 of 159 (37211)
04-17-2003 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
04-17-2003 7:23 AM


I still can't get my brain wrapped around the monotheism idea. Unless God has a strange personality disorder:
Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.
Who's He talking to?
(From "Things Creationists Hate" - still my favorite humor website).
(edited to add link)
[This message has been edited by Quetzal, 04-17-2003]

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sagg
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 159 (37212)
04-17-2003 10:54 AM


He was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The new testament says, "In the beginning was the word (referring to Jesus). And the word was with God."
Of course, there were also a myriad of Angels he could talk to as well. A third of the Angels were cast from Heaven with Lucifer, but two-thirds of them were still around.
There are many auto-biographies today that include the authors death within them. Obviously, these parts are written by a supporting author.
Amalek is blotted from History. We have no idea who he was, only his name. That actually makes it worse. Because now, people know the name, but have no concept of who it is. If he was someone important, that is the ultimate insult, because you want your name to be known - but only within the context of have great you were. It's normal to not know about people whom you can't even name... but to have your name remembered only as being blotted from history... that's harsh.
-Sagg
[This message has been edited by sagg, 04-17-2003]

Replies to this message:
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Celsus
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 159 (37216)
04-17-2003 11:45 AM


My favourite difficulty is this one from the Song of Moses in Deuteronomy:
quote:
Remember the days of old, consider the years long past; ask your father, and he will inform you; your elders, and they will tell you. When Elyon apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of elohim (literally: the gods; some manuscripts: Israelites). For YHWH's own portion was his people, Jacob his alloted share.
Deuteronomy 32:7-8 (NRSV)
No monotheists as far as I can see. The replacement of elohim with Israelites is telling--certain scribes were uneasy at this clear display of henotheism. Of course the different deities were all eventually assumed to mean one God (or a single Trinity of God ). Elyon is always translated as "Most High" even though we really have no clue who he was. The Net Bible muddies the waters even further with this footnote on the use of elohim/Israelites:
quote:
Targum Jonathan adds seventy, alluding, perhaps, to the seventy Israelites who descended to Egypt with Jacob (Gen 46:27). For the M[asoretic] T[ext] [corrupted text] (sons of Israel) a Qumran fragment and the LXX [Septuagint] have aggelwn qeou (angels of God), presupposing [corrupted text] or [corrupted text]. The line could then be rendered, According to the seventy angels of God. This does little to clarify the passage which, at best, is still difficult. The idea, perhaps, is that Israel was central to Yahweh’s purposes and all other nations were arranged and distributed according to how they related to Israel.
(Sorry, the [corrupted text] portions are Hebrew words)
Joel

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 6 of 159 (37218)
04-17-2003 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by sagg
04-17-2003 10:54 AM


He was talking to Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The new testament says, "In the beginning was the word (referring to Jesus). And the word was with God."
Of course, there were also a myriad of Angels he could talk to as well. A third of the Angels were cast from Heaven with Lucifer, but two-thirds of them were still around.
Oh boy. Now you're complicating things by creating three distinct entities in Genesis? Or at least distinct enough that they could carry on a conversation? You seem to be saying that Christianity is at its roots polytheistic. Unless, of course, you're saying that God was talking to Himself, which brings me back to the personality disorder thing. You have some kind of textual support that Jesus = The Word, and that the Holy Spirit was sitting there as well at the Beginning?
And speaking of textual support, you have some for the "myriad of angels" you noted God could have been talking to? And while we're on the subject, who or what are the angels that you think God is talking to? If you're referring to the "sons of God" (Genesis 6), doesn't that put paid to the whole Jesus thing as the only son of God? If they are just a different kind of "people" or people who have gone to heaven as some texts have it, how could they be there before Adam, the first person? When were angels created? They're certainly bopping around (literally) on Earth by the end of Genesis.
There are many auto-biographies today that include the authors death within them. Obviously, these parts are written by a supporting author.
So, Moses didn't write the whole thing? Which parts did he write and which parts were ghost-written (to coin a phrase)?

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Paul
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 159 (37220)
04-17-2003 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
04-17-2003 7:23 AM


Hardly an absurdity BJ. Stick with me now and get your bible out :-)
Blot Out: 1. To make obscure, insignificant, inconsequential.
2. Wipe out, Destroy.
This verse taken literally and in context is very easy to understand. What is the "memory" of Amalek ? Quite simply him and his descendents. The Amalekites referred to here were the descendents of Amalek: son of Eliphaz: son of Esau and Adah (Gen.36:1-12).
Amalek lead his people into this aggresive(then came Amalek Ex.17:8), brutal, and cowardly(Dt.25:17-19) attack on Isreal. It was for this attack that God cut this people off.
This "blotting out" has been fulfilled, as there are no people on earth today known as or called the Amalekites. Ex.17:16 tells us how this was accomplished, done through war with all his generations. This war was carried on by Ehud (Judg.3:13-15): Barak (Judg.5:14): Gideon (Judg.6:3): Saul (1Sam.15): Samuel (1Sam.15:32-33): David (1Sam.27:8;30:1-17; 2Sam.8:12): and finally completed by the Simeonites in the time of Hezekiah (1Chr. 4:42-43).
These Amalekites were of course a branch of the Edomites(all being descendents of Esau-Edom, who of course was the brother of Jacob-Isreal). The history of the Edomites is one of many wars with Isreal, and quite unique in that the two nations started with Esau and Jacob, them being brothers. The Edomites were in fact a more advanced and stronger people(having Dukes and Kings Gen. 36) than the Isrealites at one point. Yet King David completely defeated them and made them subject to Isreal for approx. 150 years (2Sam.8:14), this of course being prophesied in Gen.25:23. In the Millenium, which is to come, the Edomites of that day will again be ruled by Isreal (Ps.60:8-10: Isa.11:14; 63:1; Amos 9:12).
This account in Ex.17:8-16 is one of an Idolatrous, warmongering people, who most likely attacked the Isrealites for their spoils, and did this while being fully aware that Isreal simply wanted passage through their land and posed no threat whatsoever. As stated in Dt. 25:17-19 they attacked in a cowardly manner and did this all even as miracles were being performed for Isreal right before their eyes, with no fear whatsoever of God. The Amalekites could not have been ignorant of God and his power, as they both were dwelling in the wilderness at that time and had probably watched Isreal for weeks prior to this. Quite pathetic indeed, and enough that God divinely through Moses and others wiped them off the face of the earth.
In this case "Memory" = Amalek and his descendents.
""So our mighty Lord has made sure that the memory of Amalek is in fact guaranteed to live forever, in God's inspired book!""
Indeed he has. That being to never forget that Rebellion, Idolatry, and a lack of fear of God, will at some point bring a provoked and invited sentence upon ones life unless there is spiritual change. "John 3:16"
Absurdity? No. Simple reminder ? Yes :-)
Paul :-)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Brian, posted 04-17-2003 7:23 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 8 of 159 (37221)
04-17-2003 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Paul
04-17-2003 1:59 PM


That's odd. You seem to "remember" a lot about these folk whose memory is supposed to be gone.

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joz
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 159 (37222)
04-17-2003 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Paul
04-17-2003 1:59 PM


quote:
. This war was carried on by Ehud (Judg.3:13-15): Barak (Judg.5:14): Gideon (Judg.6:3): Saul (1Sam.15): Samuel (1Sam.15:32-33): David (1Sam.27:8;30:1-17; 2Sam.8:12): and finally completed by the Simeonites in the time of Hezekiah (1Chr. 4:42-43).
Wow it took a pretty f'ing long time given that they had an omnipotent god on their side.............

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sagg
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 159 (37223)
04-17-2003 2:29 PM


Why are you being so defensive? All I stated was factual responses to your post. I didn't start off my post going, "OH Boy....", in an attempt to make you feel inferior - as if your ideas were pathetically inadequate. Yet, your first reply is a direct assault on my credibility - which you know nothing about. Why should I answer your questions if you can't extend the smallest amounts of common courtesty and respect towards a stranger?
However, I will provide you with a few references you should be able to find more yourself. I didn't state anything that isn't widely understood...
quote:
Oh boy. Now you're complicating things by creating three distinct entities in Genesis? Or at least distinct enough that they could carry on a conversation? You seem to be saying that Christianity is at its roots polytheistic. Unless, of course, you're saying that God was talking to Himself, which brings me back to the personality disorder thing. You have some kind of textual support that Jesus = The Word, and that the Holy Spirit was sitting there as well at the Beginning?
John Ch 1
[b]1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with R3 God, and the Word was God. 2 He F1 was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. [b]
Ok, so the Word was in the Beginning with God, and at the same time WAS God. This is the basic idea of the trinity... like a clover, three distinct parts, but part of a whole: God the Father, God the Spirit, and God the Son.
There came a man sent from God, whose name was John (the baptist). He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
First, note in vs 14, the word became flesh, dwelt among us, and possessed the gloary of the "only begotten from the Father". The only begotten son is Jesus (John 3:16). Therefore, the word is Jesus. Which is exactly what you asked for a correlation between in your reply. This proves that Jesus was in the beginning.
Also note in vs 10, that the world was made through Jesus. This is also stated in Colosians 1:16-17 (All things are made through Him, and sustained by Him). This is because Christ is the Word of God, and God spake through his Word during creation. Obviously, according to scripture, Jesus was present during creation.
As for the Holy Spirit:
Psalms 104:30
30 You send forth Your Spirit, and they are created
This is in reference to various items of creation... the stars, the moon, animals, etc.
Genesis 1:2
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
In Genesis itself, the spirit is mentioned during creation.
quote:
And speaking of textual support, you have some for the "myriad of angels" you noted God could have been talking to? And while we're on the subject, who or what are the angels that you think God is talking to? If you're referring to the "sons of God" (Genesis 6), doesn't that put paid to the whole Jesus thing as the only son of God? If they are just a different kind of "people" or people who have gone to heaven as some texts have it, how could they be there before Adam, the first person? When were angels created? They're certainly bopping around (literally) on Earth by the end of Genesis.
The Angels are not people, they are a created being - a seperate type of being than man. Jesus in the only Son of God, because he is the only MAN born of God.
Nehemiah 9:6
"You alone are the LORD. You have made the heavens, The heaven of heavens with all their host, The earth and all that is on it, The seas and all that is in them. You give life to all of them And the heavenly host bows down before You.
The angels are the host of Heaven and were created by God(see Psalm 148:2,5). The time they were created isn't given... but most likely when the heavens were created. Sons of God does refer to Angels in some scriptures - however, this is a different title than Son of God used for Christ, because Jesus Christ was a Man, while the Angels are not. They could not pay the wages of sin because they were not man. Also, any christian can be called a son of God, because as stated above in John 1, Jesus gave them the right to be called children of God.
Of course, all this depends on a linear understanding of time. It is possible, perhaps, that before creation, and currently in the Heavens, that time does not move in a linear fashion. In fact, if something is eternal, it has not concept of time - because there is no beginning or end. So when you ask, When were they created? Were they created before men? It may be the answers to these questions don't exists because these questions rely upon our feeble concept of space and time.
As you can see, I directly answered your questions. I didn't try to dumb you down, or make you feel inferior. You asked a skeptical question, and I gave you a direct answer. I hope in the future you can extend that same amount of respect to everyone.
-Sagg

Replies to this message:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 11 of 159 (37224)
04-17-2003 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by sagg
04-17-2003 2:29 PM


sagg writes:
Why are you being so defensive?
There's a little reply icon at the bottom of each message that you can use when replying to a specific message. This makes it easy to tell who you're replying to.
All I stated was factual responses to your post. I didn't start off my post going, "OH Boy....", in an attempt to make you feel inferior - as if your ideas were pathetically inadequate. Yet, your first reply is a direct assault on my credibility - which you know nothing about. Why should I answer your questions if you can't extend the smallest amounts of common courtesty and respect towards a stranger?
EvC Forum moderators try to keep discussion focused by encouraging contributors to avoid personal comments, but while "Oh boy" is an exclamation with several possible meanings, none of them are denigrating to my knowledge. I'm not sure a denigrating personal comment would fit the context anyway. Are you perhaps thinking of the racist application of the term "boy", or perhaps the diminutive application of "boy" by which some adults might address a child?
I think Quetzal was trying to communicate a combination of surprise and dismay at your introduction of unexpected complicating considerations. "Oh my" would not be too bad a synonym.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

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Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 159 (37225)
04-17-2003 3:23 PM



And he [Jesus] said, "Get behind me Satan".

(from somewhere in Mark, NKJv)
My personal favourite.

Replies to this message:
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sagg
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 159 (37226)
04-17-2003 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Gzus
04-17-2003 3:23 PM


Oh boy, here we go again, tsk tsk tsk... *sigh* , rolls eyes, *sigh*
How is that an absurdity? This was a response Jesus gave after telling the disciples how he must suffer and be killed in Jerusalem, and Peter says, "No, this must never happen to you". Jesus reponse was:
"Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men"
The things of men, here being, Peters desire for his friend, Jesus, not to suffer and die - even though doing so mean salvation for all mankind. Satan was tempting Christ, through Peter, to consider not fulfilling the aduous task he was sent for.
Get behing me meaning, don't block the path ahead of me (the cross).
[This message has been edited by sagg, 04-17-2003]

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 14 of 159 (37227)
04-17-2003 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Brian
04-17-2003 7:23 AM


What is your favourite bible absurdity?
I'm torn between the Flood and Joshua's Long Day, where the sun and moon had to stand over two battles ten miles apart.

This message is a reply to:
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sagg
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 159 (37228)
04-17-2003 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Coragyps
04-17-2003 4:11 PM


Well, actually, your top one should be creation itself. If creation isn't an absurdity, if it is possible that God did indeed create the heavens and the earth -- then it is difficult to believe that any event within that creation is an absurdity.

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