urgent question re: information

If there is an insertion of a transposable element within an established gene, the result would be:1. loss of information
2. gain of information
3. no change in information content
4. irrelevant as to the information content of that particular gene

2. gain of information------------------

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Originally posted by SLPx:
If there is an insertion of a transposable element within an established gene, the result would be:

​

1. loss of information
2. gain of information
3. no change in information content
4. irrelevant as to the information content of that particular gene

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Scott: Is this a trick question? As you bloody well know the answer depends entirely on the definition of information you're using. If you're talking Shannon, Seiffert or Chaitan Algorithym, then the answer is 2. Anything else is 4.What's your point (out of curiosity)?

quote:

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Originally posted by Quetzal:

quote:

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Originally posted by SLPx:
If there is an insertion of a transposable element within an established gene, the result would be:

​

1. loss of information
2. gain of information
3. no change in information content
4. irrelevant as to the information content of that particular gene

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​

Scott: Is this a trick question? As you bloody well know the answer depends entirely on the definition of information you're using. If you're talking Shannon, Seiffert or Chaitan Algorithym, then the answer is 2. Anything else is 4.

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What's your point (out of curiosity)?

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Yes and no. A former poster on this board - a creationist information monger - has been engaging in the 'no increase in information possible' schtick on another board. That notion comes up here now and again, so I thought I would try to get some feedback. As I lay it out - an insertion of a transposon in an established gene - most creationists would argue, I have little doubt, that the answer must be a decrease in information, because you have disrupted a gene, or at least no change because the transposon was 'already in the genome'.But yes Quetzel - there is a punchline. I am just hoping to get some more creationist replies.Science[/i]?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SLPx:
But yes Quetzel - there is a punchline. I am just hoping to get some more creationist replies.Science[/i]?[/B][/QUOTE]SLPx, would it be possible for you to email me the citation that you have in mind, I think that my email address is in my profile. As to my answer (even if it is not from a creationist), I think that it can incease information potential but whether or not it increases information depends on: 1) which definition of information that you use, 2) whether or not the function w.r.t. the environment is altered, and 3) whether or not the viability of the organism increases w.r.t the environment and evolution. I have been getting interested in information as it applies to biology recently but have little free time to pursue this interest.------------------
"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur
Taz

sent

An interesting example of "2. gain of information" is:"Overexpression of a Drosophila cytochrome P450 gene is necessary and sufficient for resistance to the insecticide DTT....They found that the Cyp6gI gene is overexpressed 10 to 100-fold compared to sensitive strains. The P450 allele in resistant strains contained an insertion of an Accord transposable element in the 5' end of the Cyp6gI gene. To demonstrate that P450 expression is sufficient to confer insecticide resistance, Daborn et al. show that transgenic flies overexpressing Cyp6gI were resistant to DTT."Daborn et al. Science, 297:2253-2256, September 27, 2002
quote from Application Unavailable | Springer Nature

quote:

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Originally posted by SLPx:
If there is an insertion of a transposable element within an established gene, the result would be:

​

1. loss of information
2. gain of information
3. no change in information content
4. irrelevant as to the information content of that particular gene

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It really depends. Insertion of an endogenous retrovirus into the pancreatic amylase gene and subsequent duplications lead to the establishment of salivary amylase expression in primates. So this would be a gain in information.However, syncytin is a HERV-W class endogenous retroviral envelope gene that has taken over the function of syncytiotrophoblast fusion important in placental development in primates as opposed to other placental mammals. So this would not be a gain but a replacement.Recombination between homologous regions of HERVs or other retroelements can lead to loss of genetic material so it would be a loss of information (assuming said loss is not lethal and never seen in the population).Cheers,
M

Dear SLPx,You ask:If there is an insertion of a transposable element within an established gene, the result would be:1. loss of information
2. gain of information
3. no change in information content
4. irrelevant as to the information content of that particular geneI wonder:If there is an insertion of a transposable element within an established REDUNDANT gene, the result would be:1. loss of information
2. gain of information
3. no change in information content
4. irrelevant as to the information content of that particular geneBest wishes,
Peter

Dear Itz,So, after all it IS regulation of gene transcription?Best wishes,
Peter