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Author Topic:   Philosophy of Ideas
John Galt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 20 of 44 (305810)
04-21-2006 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
04-19-2006 9:03 AM


Philosophies.....
Does Objectivism fall under your list of philosophy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 04-19-2006 9:03 AM Phat has replied

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John Galt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 26 of 44 (305882)
04-22-2006 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by anglagard
04-21-2006 11:59 PM


Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
It's only been in the last few years that I've discovered Ayn Rand. having lost all faith the in the Catholic Church, not necessarily my spirituality (I've got lots of it from combined philosophies and religions), I also must say the only problem I have with Objectivism, and I've been working hard to find a solution, is that God has no place inside of it. Spirituality, however, in a form, is a great part of Objectivism. Spirituality can come from many alternate sources outside of religion. It is the presence of a higher power that cannot exist within the parametres of Objectivism
I must also add that Raynd's views are completely dependant upon each man in a given society be subject to reason. This, however, does not exist anywhere in our current world. Raynd's view of selfishness does not imply that one must 'stab someone in the back' to achieve this but that by personal achievement through our abilities we discover our values and happiness. Such happiness cannot exist so long as there is 1 person who believes that they entitled to something with working for; entitled to it by need.
Greed is not good or evil. It is the context of the word which gives it such qualities, like anything else. The problem lies in the fact that some men ARE more able than others. This should not be looked upon as a vice, but a virtue. The fact that one may be more able than an other should not be grounds for anger and jealousy; it is only factual.
In a society such as Raynd describes, yes, men work by their own means, for their own ends. But achievement of these things provides the opportunity for others to achieve as well. This, I guess, in my eyes provides happiness for others while we are striving to be our best. It isn't a matter of rich vs poor, in fact it ins't a matter of anything vs anything. Wealth, once again in Raynd's society, would simply respect outstanding ability which unfortunately is not celebrated, but condemned.
I guess people just aren't ready to accept such doctrines as one man being more able than another (not to say that means that they are better or superior). Also, please note, when i say man or men I refer to the Humankind and not the one sex in case anyone might be confused.

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John Galt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 27 of 44 (305883)
04-22-2006 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by anglagard
04-21-2006 11:59 PM


Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
I must basically agree with Phat. To me the lack of a spiritual element renders it incomplete.
Spirituality , in my understanding of Objectivism, CAN be achieved through the success and achievement of our works. What is spirituality but the confirmation of life and discovering peace within?
Discovery of God or a higher power is another story.

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John Galt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 30 of 44 (305913)
04-22-2006 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Phat
04-22-2006 10:52 AM


Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
First of all, so its easier on me in the future, could you explain how I quote what you have written so that my replies are easier to understand?
Second, is spirituality a material thing? Yes. Through electrical pulses in my brain I am able to think through logic and reason. These things are not concrete, but they are material. They cannot be seen, touched or smelled, but does that void their existence as 'material' things? I don't believe so. The concept of being aware of oneself is the first step any man must make before he can come to realize any of the things that surround him. "I think, therefore I am." is erroneous because it implies that we must think before we realize we exist. I see it as the opposite, "I am, therefore I think." Self actualization is the first thought process one must go through before understanding that what we are doing is thinking. How can thought exist if we don't exist before?
Finding peace within is material. Once again, like thought, it is not concretely material but I do not need to see my 'peace' visually to know that I have it.
Self actualization and validation are what we must discover before we can determine what purpose we wish our lives to follow. To me, the purpose of any life should be achievement. Achievement can come in any form: to invent, to travel, to find 'God' or whatever you may choose. But in the end, you must want to achieve something; without it, you have no purpose and a man without purpose it spiritually dead. I don't believe Raynd denies spirituality, just existence of God because his existence cannot be reached through reason. We set goals (or achievements) in our life so that we may strive to be better than we are. Sometimes it is not the actual attainement of said goal, but the journey to it by which we find what we wanted. But in the end, completing our goals gives us a sense of self-esteem unachievable anywhere's else. To be able to say, "I did this." about what we achieved gives us a feeling of self-worth. We then set new goals and the process continues. Everything you do in life is a means to an ends and it is at these ends that we find validaty, or if you may, spirituality.
Quick note, egoism and selfishness in Raynd's Objectivist theories do not follow the traditional sense of the definitions we know today. They are not evils. Simply put, they refer to the self.
Thanx for listening.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Phat, posted 04-22-2006 10:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by AdminNWR, posted 04-22-2006 12:47 PM John Galt has replied
 Message 35 by Phat, posted 04-22-2006 9:45 PM John Galt has not replied

  
John Galt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 32 of 44 (306000)
04-22-2006 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by AdminNWR
04-22-2006 12:47 PM


Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
[qs]When you are composing a reply, to the left of the area where you are typing there is a notation "dBCodes On (help)". If you click on that "help" it will open a window with the various codes available.[qs] testing, testing, 1,2,3

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John Galt
Inactive Junior Member


Message 33 of 44 (306002)
04-22-2006 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by AdminNWR
04-22-2006 12:47 PM


Re: Philosophies.....Ayn Rands Objectivism
When you are composing a reply, to the left of the area where you are typing there is a notation "dBCodes On (help)". If you click on that "help" it will open a window with the various codes available.
thanx!

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