Women's Reactions to Rape

Quote- "One of the twisted messages I see coming from prudism is that pure S&M and brutality is tolerated and in some cases championed (just look at boxing) while anything remotely sexual is reviled (like just one little nipple)."I have a serious problem with the mentioning of a highly sophisticated and scientific form of athletism that happens to be in combative form while comparing it to S&M and Brutality, as though to imply its wrongfulness and violence is similar to women being raped. It sickens me to beleive that a forum full of intelligent, educated persons cannot see the sport of boxing for what it really is. Please refrain from mentioning professionally sanctioned sports in comparison to the raping of women. Boxing requires a mastery of technical movements, speed, stamina, power, versatility, imagination, endurance, mental toughness, drive, ambition, planning, dedication and self discipline. Rape requires none of the above. Anyone who has been invovled directly with the sport of boxing and who has personal experience knows that boxing is not fighting...fighting is not boxing. There are less similarities with a professional boxing bout and a streetfight than most people may be aware. This reminds me of a time about 2 months ago when I was in English class and we were asked to state what we feel the most difficult Olympic sport is. I said boxing. The girl next to me thought that was just funny, and said "how hard is it just to hit someone?" I think I said something along the lines of "Pretty fu^&ing hard!" People just don't understand how hard this sport really is. The average professional boxer spends up to 6 hours a day training..up to 6 days a week. Tell me this, how often does the predatory rapist get up at 6 in the morning to run 5 miles, in order to accomplish his/her goal of raping someone? When mentioning violent encounters other than rape, streetfighting would be a much more appropriate example.
I do think its rediculous to make such a big deal aobut nipple slip. I think people make it out to be a big thing just because these people are celebrities. Nipple slips are just one of the millions of nonsexual over-announced "mistakes" of celebrities. They'll make just as big a deal if an actress gains 5 lbs.
As far as rape prevention goes, self-defence is often misunderstood as there are few women who have graduated courses that could actually handle themselves against a big, strong and determined attacker. I think I can validate this statement as I teach self defence. Most seminars are built around how to "get away" while standing. It's relatively easy to get away from someone while standing, as one very solid groin shot with a kick or knee will render most people useless for 5-30 seconds. There are many situations where it is not that basic but nevertheless getting away from predators while standing is rarely proven as difficult as when on the ground. Ground fighting must be learned. Whether you teach women wreslting or Judo techniques or jui jitsu chokes/locks..this is the ultimate tool in escaping rape on the ground, which is over 95% of the time, where things end up. I think that carrying a firearm is ovverated, and pepper spray is also. If women are going to get away they need to be smart and well informed. Self defence is a supplement and is only to be used when the situation is serious. Overall, these considerations solve rape issues from random predators for the most part. The real problem is when people are raped by people they know or once knew. This seems to be the real controversy. You can't carry a gun around EVERYWHERE...odds are you'll shoot yourself or someone you love if your not trained properly anyways. And you certainly can't be paranoid of everyone. The controvery carries on as there is certainly no clear-cut way of doing away with rape altogether.

Mikehager- "Now, what does this all have to do with the reaction of women to rape?"I was discussing self defence as a means of rape prevention. Boxing was put in a bad light. I feel as a boxing practitioner and self defence instructor that boxing proves very useful in self defence/rape prevention situations. It's not fair to put boxing down when it yeilds so much potential safety for women about to be raped.Mikehager- "To pretend that martial arts is about anything other then learning how to hurt the other guy faster then he can hurt you is silly."This is a common misconception. In the words of Bruce Lee- "I practice the way of Jeet Kune Do as a form of personal expression. Now I could put on a big show and be cocky and full of arrrogance and act all tough and feel real kool and all that, but when I'm fighting its a very hard thing to do...to express one's self. I express myself just like speech and that, my friend, is very hard to do."I veiw my boxing as an expression as Bruce Lee did as well. Anyone who is going to claim that boxing is simply a slugfest obviously NEVER BOXED a TRAINED FIGHTER. So please, before bashing boxing on the head "haha"...get in the ring and tell me, was it really as angry and violent as you thought...or was it dependant on technique, athletism and mental clarity?Yes you do see cocky arrogant fighters. Yes there are boxers who have been locked up. Holmes brings up Tyson as if Tyson represents the sport. This is just not fair. Most boxers are mild tempered people that have gained self control to an extreme point. Just because Tyson has no philisophical gain in practicing the "sweet science" doesn't mean that there is a lack of philosophy involved, as brought up by Mikehager. The discipline and mental regulation offered in boxing is one ascpect that makes it so practical to rape prevention. By discipline and mental regulation I mean the ability to perform techniques under pressure..something that most self defence seminars cannot instill in a day or few hours.
In oder for us to understand rape prevention, we have to first understand sources of self defence, along with preventative tactics. Holmes claims to agree with my statements on self defence however doesn't realize the role boxing plays into the sequence. If someone has TRUELY involved themselves in the sweet science and meditated on it thouroughly, one truley CAN take out an opponent GENTLY...not violently. I've noticed throughout the forum there being mention that techniques should be taught to women on how to KILL a man if they are attacked. This is as unruley as women always carrying guns. You dont need to KILL a person who is attacking you. It is flagrant disrespect of life in my opinion, to kill a person when there are less lethal forms of self defence available for rape prevention...such as boxing.

LMAO...tell me when you do so we can jump some fools!

Schrafinator- "How does boxing do this?"Thats a reasonable question. For one thing, boxing is as every bit a technical sport as other martial art learned for rape prevention. Take Judo for instance. Judo is extremely technical, meaning even the most enormous man can be thrown and slammed to the ground by even the weakest smallest female...if she posesses the right fluidity of techniqes. Boxing is no different. Boxing is all about acheiving and maintaining advantageous angles.
I will emphasize this point with capitalization: EVEN IF THE VICTIM THROWS NO STRIKES AT HIS/HER ATTACKER, THE SWIFT FOOTWORK UTILIZED IN BOXING IS QUITE POSSIBLY ENOUGH TO EVADE THE ATTACKER UNTIL ASSISTANCE ARRIVES.If the victim chooses to move with an attack, the strikes in boxing are also highly technical as a small woman can render a large man unconcious if the correct form is used when delivering the punch.I hope this answers your question, schrafinator.

Although im a little slow at getting on top of thesse quotes, I want to bring them up as I feel they can be misleading.Crashfrog- "Self-defense is the process by which one incapacitates one's attacker with the greatest expediency."
.....AAActually, self defence is the process by which one defends one self. There isn't neccisarily any "incapacitation" invloved. It could be as simple as punching and running.Crashfrog- "The application of submission holds requires intense training and physical strength"Intense training..usually, for most people yes. However physical strength is not a factor if your truely learning legitimate submissions.

Crashfrog- "I don't understand what you mean by "most people." You think that there are people who are born with the knowledge to use submission holds effectively?"No one is born with the knowledge of submissions. Some people pick it up REALLY fast..thats all I meant, sorry for not clarifying.

Schraphinator- "Most rapes are not 'stranger jumps out and attacks'".This is true, as we have established this. We were discussing the legitamacy of Boxing when this does occur.

Holmes- "Tyson was, the fact that he was a brute, but that he was pretty unskilled and yet people loved him anyway for winning..."HAHA..riiiight Tyson was unskilled. hehe hehe...

Holmes- "You will be trained to take and dish out punishment"Man, your coach must have hated you! Or wait, did you even box? I forget. In either case, your obviously not aware that defensive boxing is not the same as taking punishment. Its the exact opposite, actually. I suppose you were bringing up the fact that a female boxer COULD take more punishment through conditioning. Sure...just one more reason why boxing is an excellent form of self defence.Holmes- "I'm not saying a woman couldn't be helped with boxing, especially with confidence and physical roughness. But girls really need to hit below the belt, as well as using elbows and legs."Ok, so I agree with you that groin shots and utilization of elbow and knee strikes are useful. This doesn't cripple boxing at all however, since a properly executed punch is just as effective as these. Small women CAN decapacitate a large male with a boxing punch.One more point I'd like to bring up is that boxing emphasizes balance and smooth footwork. Boxing is unlike kickboxing in that the fighter does not "give" their leg to their attacker, a serious mistake for a woman being charged at by a larger attacker as it can result in the attacker grabbing the leg and the fight ending up on the ground. Boxing emphasized a strong base with both feet on the ground, therefore it evades being taken down much easier than kickboxing, which is the most common fighting system that includes the use of elbows and legs. If you havent already, please read message 106 where I explain further reasons why boxing is so effective in self defence.This message has been edited by wormjitsu, 11-17-2004 09:11 PM

Schrafinator- "I was under the impression that women are actually in a much more powerful position on the ground because their legs are much more powerful than their upper bodies."Well basically where this forum took a spin towards boxing is that people refuted the evidence that boxing is a practical form of self defense. As a grappler I will endorse groundfighting as a great importance for self defense, as over 90% of attacks and fights do end up on the ground. However, if your implying that it would be safer for a woman to be pinned on the ground under a man when an attempted rape is taking place...thats simply faulty reasoning. Not only can the woman no longer run away or throw powerful strikes, but she isright where the attcker wants her to be. So unless your speaking of using submission holds and chokes, its a very bad thing to be underneath someone.schrafinator- "Men will always be able to overpower and outreach a woman if they are both using their upper bodies and arms in a struggle, but women have the edge with their lower bodies."Whosawhatchamajigga? I gotta admit I didn't see this on coming. I JUST got done explaining the principles of boxing and why they yeild an advantage to ANY woman facing ANY man. Apparently I wasnt clear enough and EVERY man will ALWAYS win upper body battles..no matter what. OH OH and women have the advantage on men in leg strength! HAHAHA where did you think that one up at? How many women do you know with stronger legs than men?

Actually, I agree with everything you just said. The problem is that you used the term "unskilled" in a previous post and replaced it with "well trained, which is to say conditioned, but this was not a master of deft movements and clever ploys" in this post.But like I said, now that you've specified what you mean by "untrained"...I have to agree, unless of course I'm matching these two definitions of Tyson's boxing abilities incorrectly.

It is important to use the correct terms when speaking of boxing as it is easily imsunderstood. Instead of "Tyson is unskilled," which implies a lack of boxing ablility, you could say "Tyson is less technical of a fighter [for the level he competes at] OR [in comparison to his sheer power]"
That way, its not bashing on some of the sports greats, and therefore not contributing to the ideaology that boxing is unprofessional."Boxing is a form of self defense that has its flaws along with other forms of martial arts, that is why INDIVIDUAL COMBINATION is key to learning self defense. I was simply bringing up the point that boxing isn't to be left unconsidered. I wasn't attempting to create the illusion that boxing is invincable. Sorry if it appeared that way.That should settle the boxing debate.

Alright well I'll admit it was probably too sarcastic. I'll stick to the point without snye remarks from now on.Perhaps you could explain to me how it is you feel that women have a superior chance at succeeding in escape when on the ground UNDERNEATH their attacker. It has something to do with a higher ratio of lower body strength, that much you've made clear.

Hey just a tangent of this topic: what about the "claimed" rapes that didn't really happen. Not to sound stereotypical, but I know a great deal of women who have lied about such things as being "raped." RApe is a broad term. I think rape should refer to when someone is being brought to do something sexually that they do not want to be a part of. Some women however, think rape could be as simple as making advances without asking for voluntary consent. I am willing to put my right hand on the line that over 20% of rape accusations are completly and entirely false. Just curious what you guys think.

Schrafinator- "And you base this claim upon what evidence?"Perhaps someone could tell me how I can post a link. I was also wondering how you quote.Well heres the site: http://www.menweb.org/throop/falsereport/refbrownm.htmlThe way I found it is simply by typing in "false rape" on google. I clicked the first link on there.
OVER 20% it does not say, although I'm sure there are areas {like where I live at} that are higher, as well as many areas where rape accusations are for the most part very honest.The page clearly sites that the FBI reports 15-20% of unfounded rape claims after extensive investigations. Unfounded meaning it probably did not occur as there is no substantial evidence. The truth is, rape is so horrible that they MAKE SURE to investigate every case throughly. There should be some kind of evidence found from such an event most of the time.
I am not speaking from strong information but rather common sense in that, if most rapes occur from someone the person knows...would not it be fairly easy to find substantial evidence?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do beleive but I do beleive that rape is the most falsely reported crime, according to the FBI.
Thats the point I was bringing up, sorry if I was slightly statistically innacurate.