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Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Your eternal destination: you decide. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All for 7000 per year more. Do the math.
What's that in American dollars? Not that it matters. I just like to understand what I'm eavesdropping on. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If that's so, then why shouldn't Iano have to answer subbie's question: Even the most rabid [Christian] will accept that [Allah] can well exist. They would also accept that Heaven and Hell of the [Q'uran] can exist (for simplicities sake: Heaven is bliss, Hell ain't) If you were to die a few minutes from now where do you think [Allah] would send you? And why do you think he would send you there. I'll answer it. He'd send me to the deepest Muslim hell reserved for believers that God has a Son. Or if he were real clever he'd give me 72 virgin females to cope with. I guess women don't get a Muslim paradise, being nonhuman or some such.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Here that house in that location would cost $500,000. It would in most of California too, double that in San Francisco. It's the silicone breasts I'd have trouble working for myself. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And how did I misrepresent the Koran?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I haven't been able to get through the Koran myself, just part of it here and there, but I'd heard the Koran wasn't specific about the 72 virgins, that the idea was spelled out in the Hadiths and Muslim tradition, but there's more along those lines in the Koran nevertheless than you acknowledge:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011214.html The difficulty in determining what the Koran has to say about virgins and such is establishing what the Koran says, period. Translators vary widely in their rendering of the spare and often opaque text. For example, we find the following passage in a Web-based version of Islam's holy book http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/index.htm "Verily, for the Muttaqun [righteous], there will be a success (paradise); gardens and grapeyards; and young full-breasted (mature) maidens of equal age; and a full cup (of wine)" (An-Naba 78:31-34). Whoa, one thinks--the Kingdom of Heaven meets the Playboy Advisor! However, most other English translations, both on-line and in print, replace "full-breasted maidens" with some tame construction such as "companions." Inquiring further, we find that the Arabic word at issue is WakawaAAiba, which appears nowhere else in the Koran. The French, less prudish in these matters, usually render it as something like des belles aux seins arrondis, "beautiful women with round breasts," so I think it's pretty clear what the Prophet, or at least his stenographers, had in mind. Nothing in the Koran specifically states that the faithful are allotted 72 virgins apiece. For this elaboration we turn to the hadith, traditional sayings traced with varying degrees of credibility to Muhammad. Hadith number 2,562 in the collection known as the Sunan al-Tirmidhi says, "The least [reward] for the people of Heaven is 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome of pearls, aquamarine and ruby." A little hype from the marketing department, you may say. Fine. Let's return to the Koran, Islam's font of religious authority. Even if we leave out the racy detail and make allowances for metaphor, we're obliged to admit that Islamic heaven is a pretty rockin' place, with an emphasis on sensual pleasures. The provision of virgins in indeterminate quantities is alluded to at numerous points, and you know they're not just there to fluff the pillows. (In fairness to the Prophet, the physical quality usually attributed to the houris, as they're called, is "wide lovely eyes.") The food, service, ambience., etc, are great. About the Koran's stating that women have equality, can you give a quotation or chapter and verse? If it does, then it seems that Muslims don't exactly live by their Koran.
well for one it states that women are full and equal humans with perfect agency under allah. there are a few business applications that reduce their status but there's certainly nothing about them being forbidden to speak in church... Very odd notions here I must say. A friend with extensive experience among Muslims -- in Europe, not here -- told me when we were thinking of possibly visiting a local mosque, which we may yet do, that I should be prepared to wear something up to the neck and down to the wrists and a long skirt, with my hair covered of course, and that we would enter the mosque by a door set apart for women only and sit in a segregated area for women only. Nothing about being forbidden to speak in church? Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Your knowledge is clearly made of more fragile stuff. It doesn't say much for a person's confidence when they will not allow a question they ask of others to be entertained by themselves even hypothetically. People who know they stand on solid ground behave differently. They don't shrink from sticking their toes in the kiddie pool for fear that they'll drown. If they feel like sticking their toes in the water and swishing them around a bit, they do. They can. You really have no grasp at all of the situation of a believer. God is an absolute certainty, a present experienced reality at times. There is no fooling around with hypotheticals about what if He didn't exist or didn't this or didn't that. The question hits one as a bizarre impossibility. It is an exercise in futility, a waste of time. There is nothing whatever to be gained by it, except entertaining the unbelievers, and sometimes we'll indulge in that, as I did when I answered the question about Allah, and I answered truthfully. But it's really just a mind game to no purpose. Allah does not exist and this is the number one truth to be stated, which is what Iano did. There is no shakiness of faith here whatever, quite the opposite. It's more like a feeling of amazed incredulity that anyone would pose such a hypothetical, something so illogical and irrational it is at first hard to get into the gameplaying mindset. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
God says it it so and God is unconditionally correct. That is true. God is unconditionally correct. He IS God.
I wonder how long before the next Christian Osama makes an appearance. Well there hasn't been one in 2000 years, so I doubt one will be coming along in the near future either. Oh the Antichrist will be along though, a selfdescribed Christian who opposes everything of Christ. Versions of the antichrist have shown up many times. Hitler was one. The next big one should outdo him.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All it takes is a very persuasive charimatic individual to move you from this unconditional belief to do whatever they want of you. Just look at what Manson did. Hitler. Osama. Read the New Testament for what a genuine folower of Christ must be. Manson, Hitler and Osama are followers of the evil one. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
How can you be sure that you, and other creationists, are not followers of the evil one? I guess you aren't sure, right? Well, how am I sure? I just am. Faith I guess. The Holy Spirit I guess. Understanding the scripture I guess. Nothing I could prove to anyone apparently. The thing that most amazes me about the general discussion at EvC between Biblical creationists and everybody else, is the evil that is imputed to us and to God. That in itself fits with what scripture says to expect, but it is still astonishing nevertheless. Well, the Romans accused the Christians of atheism and other evils. The Pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy and casting out demons by Beelzebub. It's all there, just as scripture says. I guess it's my own puny faith that it keeps astonishing me when I encounter it over and over.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Read the New Testament for what a genuine folower of Christ must be. Manson, Hitler and Osama are followers of the evil one. So Osama is no more a "true" Muslim than an IRA terrorist is a "true" Christian. That's quite a non sequitur.
Why is there one rule of definition for Christians who commit evil and another for Muslims? Huh?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The thing that most amazes me about the general discussion at EvC between Biblical creationists and everybody else, is the evil that is imputed to us and to God. Then you are misreading.I don't say anybody imputing evil to you or to God. Rather, I see people pointing out that your own beliefs impute evil to God. I'm not sure why you cannot see that. I believe most of what I've given as my beliefs are true to the Biblical portrait of God. So if you say my beliefs impute evil to God, that's the same as you saying God is evil.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yes, you are always straight out about it.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The thing that most amazes me about the general discussion at EvC between Biblical creationists and everybody else, is the evil that is imputed to us and to God. That in itself fits with what scripture says to expect, but it is still astonishing nevertheless. Hey, don't feel special, the extremist fundamental by-the-book Muslims are "persecuted" also. As I get it, they are doing the persecuting, killing Christians daily around the world as a matter of fact, and Jews as well, when they can get to them with their strapped-on bombs. And Hindus as well. They're still working on killing more "Christian" Americans too.
The Pharisees accused Jesus of blasphemy and casting out demons by Beelzebub. I don't see you casting any demons out so I don't think there are any parallels here. I think you are undeservingly elevating your position. The Pharisees attacked Jesus because he would not stone the women as the "scriptures" required. No offence Faith but if you were there and raised with a strict Jewish background, which side would you be on with your cocksure worldview. Myself? I am not sure..... The Pharisees attacked Jesus because He claimed to be God. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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