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Author Topic:   Limits on Abortion
tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 1 of 230 (386921)
02-24-2007 7:11 PM


As I'm sure everyone knows, people who are against abortion usually aren't 100% against it. They always have exceptions, such as: the mother was raped, carrying the pregnancy to term would threaten the mother's life, &c.

In this thread I want to analyze the minutiae and practicalities of these limits on abortion. Regarding rape, for example: Does a woman merely have to claim she was raped to get an abortion? Does she need to file a police report? Must a doctor inspect her for any evidence of rape? Should the abortion wait until the rapist is convicted?

Where do we draw the line?

Coffee House, I suppose, since this has little to do with EvC.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 02-24-2007 7:54 PM tudwell has responded
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-24-2007 8:24 PM tudwell has responded
 Message 6 by Coragyps, posted 02-24-2007 9:08 PM tudwell has responded
 Message 12 by crashfrog, posted 02-24-2007 10:40 PM tudwell has responded
 Message 20 by RAZD, posted 02-25-2007 12:38 PM tudwell has not yet responded

  
Adminnemooseus
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Message 2 of 230 (386922)
02-24-2007 7:16 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 567
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3 of 230 (386928)
02-24-2007 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tudwell
02-24-2007 7:11 PM


Would it be off topic to discuss why the woman's being raped in any way justifies the abortion? The fetus is in no way culpable for the act of rape. Doesn't it seem unjust in the extreme that the fetus is destroyed while the rapist, if caught and convicted, typically only gets about seven years incarceration?

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tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 4 of 230 (386930)
02-24-2007 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AnswersInGenitals
02-24-2007 7:54 PM


Would it be off topic to discuss why the woman's being raped in any way justifies the abortion?

Yes, it would be. I really want to look at the real-life effects that the restrictions proposed by some pro-lifers might have. The issue of why rape should justify abortion, while interesting, never leads anywhere because both sides are so convinced they are right. Feel free to propose a new topic, though. I'd be happy to discuss it there.


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Hyroglyphx
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Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 5 of 230 (386934)
02-24-2007 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tudwell
02-24-2007 7:11 PM


As I'm sure everyone knows, people who are against abortion usually aren't 100% against it. They always have exceptions, such as: the mother was raped, carrying the pregnancy to term would threaten the mother's life, &c.

In this thread I want to analyze the minutiae and practicalities of these limits on abortion.

The limit in my mind is something like an ectopic pregnancy where both mother and child will die. Only then is it justified.

Regarding rape, for example: Does a woman merely have to claim she was raped to get an abortion? Does she need to file a police report? Must a doctor inspect her for any evidence of rape? Should the abortion wait until the rapist is convicted?

The only criteria for an abortion is to be pregnant. Rape doesn't even factor in to it.


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

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Coragyps
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Posts: 5515
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 6 of 230 (386938)
02-24-2007 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tudwell
02-24-2007 7:11 PM


Should the abortion wait until the rapist is convicted?

Since (in most of the US) the fetus would typically be already born and likely in kindergarten by that time, I'm afraid that wouldn't be practical.

Edited by Coragyps, : fix tag


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tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 7 of 230 (386939)
02-24-2007 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Hyroglyphx
02-24-2007 8:24 PM


The limit in my mind is something like an ectopic pregnancy where both mother and child will die. Only then is it justified.

Does that mean only situations where the mother and child have a 100% chance of dying should result in abortion?

The only criteria for an abortion is to be pregnant. Rape doesn't even factor in to it.

I happen to agree. Others, however, have expressed contrary opinions, which is why I included it in the OP.


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tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 8 of 230 (386940)
02-24-2007 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coragyps
02-24-2007 9:08 PM


quote:
Should the abortion wait until the rapist is convicted?

Since (in most of the US) the fetus would typically be already born and likely in kindergarten by that time, I'm afraid that wouldn't be practical.

That's what I was thinking. So, if courts of law are ruled out, how else can we determine the veracity of a woman's claim of being raped? Or should we just give abortions to all women claiming to be raped?


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6026
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 9 of 230 (386942)
02-24-2007 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by tudwell
02-24-2007 9:29 PM


Does that mean only situations where the mother and child have a 100% chance of dying should result in abortion?

Seldom is anything 100%. What I mean is that if there is a high probability of death for both parties, you must opt to save the mother because the child will die regardless. This all assuming the gestation is very early in the cycle.

quote:
The only criteria for an abortion is to be pregnant. Rape doesn't even factor in to it.

I happen to agree. Others, however, have expressed contrary opinions, which is why I included it in the OP.

I don't think just because a woman is raped is a reason to give the child a death sentence and the mother a life sentence while he gets a slap on the wrist. I just mean that, per the law, there is no reason necessary to conduct an abortion. The woman can use abortion as her birth control method and no one in the clinic would stop her.


"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

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tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 10 of 230 (386943)
02-24-2007 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
02-24-2007 9:54 PM


Seldom is anything 100%. What I mean is that if there is a high probability of death for both parties, you must opt to save the mother because the child will die regardless.

So what exactly is a "high probability"?


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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 2468 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 11 of 230 (386946)
02-24-2007 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
02-24-2007 9:54 PM


What would you say in this scenario. Real life. This woman goes to my mom's church.

Mom is pregnant, greater than 12 weeks I think. She was just diagnosed with breast cancer. Her only option is chemo and she is a good candidate. If she waits for treatment the baby will probably live but she will probably die at the rate the cancer is spreading. In order to have the treatment now she has to terminate the pregnancy.


Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 230 (386947)
02-24-2007 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by tudwell
02-24-2007 7:11 PM


Where do we draw the line?

I don't know. Under what circumstances is it appropriate to force a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will?


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Replies to this message:
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tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 13 of 230 (386949)
02-24-2007 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by crashfrog
02-24-2007 10:40 PM


Under what circumstances is it appropriate to force a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will?

Being pro-choice, I would say none. But this thread is about examining the pro-life view on abortion and determining whether or not certain restrictions are viable and what the implications would be were we to enforce those restrictions.


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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 23 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 14 of 230 (386950)
02-24-2007 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by tudwell
02-24-2007 10:52 PM


But this thread is about examining the pro-life view on abortion and determining whether or not certain restrictions are viable and what the implications would be were we to enforce those restrictions.

That's fine. From the pro-life position, then, under what circumstances is it appropriate to force a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will? It's not a question directed specifically at you.


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tudwell
Member (Idle past 4535 days)
Posts: 172
From: KCMO
Joined: 08-20-2006


Message 15 of 230 (386955)
02-24-2007 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by crashfrog
02-24-2007 10:56 PM


From the pro-life position, then, under what circumstances is it appropriate to force a woman to continue a pregnancy against her will?

From my experience, the answer would be 'most circumstances'. Not getting an abortion would be the norm (if the pro-lifers had their way). Only under certain circumstances would a women be allowed to abort, like, say, if she were raped, or if she (and/or the baby) were going to die if she carried the pregnancy to term.


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