Are there any Christian Leaders that Walk with Christ?

Phatboy, ministry finance is always a touchy issue. Personally, if the ministry is large, I've no problems with the minister being somewhat well-off, but it can be a turn-off when it seems wealth is the issue. That really is not in the Christian spirit of things. It can also be distressing to see some ministers clearly get off in the arena of wealth.On the other hand, the Bible does not really teach a minister cannot be wealthy. Jesus sent them without money, but then tells them to take scrip, etc,...when he is crucified. Admittedly, that is somewhat obscure, but we do see the Bible refer to ministers being supported and the community urged to support them with double-honor.Demanding that all ministers their whole lives be dirt poor is not double honoring them.Btw, I fully understand what it is like to be sent out with absolutely nothing, with a wife and children even, totally dependant on God to meet all of our needs and having often no natural knowledge how that would happen, and living that way for years.On the other hand, I also feel like God is leading me in business now and plan to continue in that vein, and believe wealth, if it comes my way, will be blessing from God and a source of enabling more work to be done.I would also like to state that whereas there is scriptural examples where following the Lord especially into the ministry can make a man poor, very poor in fact, at least outwardly, there is likewise a lot of evidence in the scriptures to suggest that God also likes to make some of his followers wealthy, and moreover, imo, it is important fo Christian business-people to prosper so that the work of the ministry can be effective and so the needy can be assisted, and that this is perfectly scriptural.In fact, there is nothing wrong with a Christian being a millionare or even a billionare. Aberaham was certainly very rich.But such wealth can be dangerous for a man's soul, and it would not be a blessing for everyone to have such wealth.So neither being poor, nor rich, makes one more godly, although it's easier for the poor to accept and trust in God.

You told me I can't read. That's christian?
You got thoroughly disproven by some real scholars.Go complain to admins somewhere.Hypocrite.

Hey you can meet a real christian right here folks!You give christians something to aspire to be.

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I volunteer with Youth For Christ, and believe me, I am more content not having to worry about fundraising and finances...except they occasionally buy me some gas for my car. Other than that, I don't get paid.

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That's what I'm referring toThis message has been edited by Chris Porteus, 09-03-2005 02:04 AM

Chris, grow up. I made that comment for good cause.I see where you credited someone here with being a real Christian because they volunteered time. Well, try going to church and talk with some folks there, and you can meet tons of people that volunteer their time and money without getting paid for it, and try talking with some people at different ministries that are not formally churches.To call me or others hypocrites considering your accusations here of seeming blanket accusations towards people of faith, well, it's just astonishing from someone claiming to be serious about following Jesus.And yes, I do at times post somewhat non-Christian responses here. However, you don't see me typically touting my own righteousness and questioning whether others are Christians and some such because they, gasp, have money or own their home. If I mention my faith, it's usually for clarity, not to point fingers as you have done.In other words, I point fingers based on what I think is faulty logic here in science, not at people's faith-walk.Maybe though had you walked somewhat as Christ has, really went about doing the things Jesus calls one to do, and ministering without any provision on hand in the sense of regular income, and doing so with a family and responsibility, trusting God to meet your needs, ministering at times in very dangerous situations with your life on the line literally, maybe had you actually done something like that and become poor for Christ, you would understand and not criticize anyone that has become rich for Christ as well.Jesus had wealthy disciples as well as poor ones, and the wealthy ones such as Joanna played a critical role in providing for the ministry, and there was no hypocrisy in Jesus' accepting that money because it wasn't tainted money or somehow reflective of her sin.The Bible says for the poor man to rejoice that he is exalted, and the rich to rejoice in being humbled. We all come before the same God, rich, poor and middle class.This message has been edited by randman, 09-03-2005 02:27 AM

Thanks for the compliment, but I am far from the best role model. It is true that when I volunteer, God gives me the character and the words to say that encourage a lot of otherwise messed up kids. For that, I give Him full credit.I have a lot of problems that I need prayer about and that I need to surrender my will in doing.Gambling is one of them. I got hooked on it, and even though I say to myself (and promise God) that I would use the money wisely,I delude myself and probably make God angry. Of course, He could probably give me millions of dollars in many ways unconvential...certainly not as sloppy and mathimatical as a slot machine which is invariably set to favor the house!!It all happened because, a few years ago,(year 2000) I had started getting into gambling. One day, I drove up to the casino with my income tax refund..($1800.00) I had a conversation with God...or, for you skeptics, myself. I asked to win that day and told God that I would never gamble again if He would help me. It turns out that this particular day, I began losing most all of my money but I felt a certain calm. A fat (probably wealthy) older man had just won $3000.00 on a machine that had taken most of my money earlier. I began to cuss him out in my mind until I felt an inner unction to bless him anyway and wish him all the best...which I inwardly did.Down to my last $200.00, something compelled me to go back to the machine that he had won on...(usually not a typical response) I put in a $20.00 bill and the machine hit for its highest possible amount....$50,000.00!This story does not prove that God allowed me to win....it could be purely mechanical. The point of the story is that I never quit and I never learned my lesson that day. I have been in debt ever since...(Of course, I used the 50,000.00 to pay off all debts and buy a truck..I even tithed to the church...but then I kept gambling---breaking my promise to God. I think God wanted to teach me a lesson.
That money means nothing. Obedience means everything! Telling you about this makes me never want to gamble again.No....I am far from a perfect Christian, but I wanted to let you know that we all mess up one way or another and I have hope that God will give me the strength to quit listening to my messed up logic and surrender to Him completely!I had a dream the other night...in it, I was in a classroom and a teacher was mocking my faith. I began to pray for another guy...a drunk who was also mocking God. The guy fell out, and the whole class was amazed...all of them looking at me as if I had some sort of power.What the dream mean't to me was not that I can do anything in my own power....whether it be encouraging someone, winning or gaining money, or saying the right thing at the right time.I firmly believe that with Him...I can and WILL do all that He has for me to do in life. I know that if the kids that I talk to ever knew what an idiot I was with my gambling habit, it would hurt their faith...perhaps. I always believe in being honest, though. I wanted you to see me as I really am, Chris. I want to be a good Christian, but it will have to be God finishing the work within me...because I am slow to change....even though I know better!This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-03-2005 03:01 AM

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A youth is a person who is going to carry on what you have started. He will assume control of your cities, states, and nations. He is going to take over your churches, schools, and corporations. You may adopt all the policies you please, but how they are carried out depends on him. So it might be well to pay him some attention.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.

Here is what common sense tells us about Jesus and property.God created the universe and everything in it, it all belongs to him.Jesus is God.Jesus owns the universe so He is rich beyond our comprehension.Jesus wasnt poor, Jesus owned EVERYTHING that has ever existed.Why do you think He never bought any lottery tickets?Brian.

I'm just failing to see how you can become physically rich as a christian when you're giving everything.

Look at Mother Theresa...she did not care about money at all. One time, a wealthy man approached her and offred to build her a huge hospital, provided only that the mans name be on it...she turned him down, declaring that God would give her what she needed...which He did.

That's an awesome story.

Thanks, but I felt a bit stupid telling it. I know a lot of what the Bible says and means...not so much in a scholarly way but in the practical way of the character of God contained and explained within it...and yet I mess up and do stupid things to this day!I think Jar said it best....Jesus was human. Jesus is alive, and is now with God. Remember His prayer concerning all of the rest of us? Notice how He says that we are not of the world...(Be in it but not of it?) Thanks for causing me to look this up....I needed this prayer,Chris!This message has been edited by Phatboy, 09-03-2005 09:52 AM

Chris.If you can, please go by any Episcopal Church and ask them for a copy of the Book of Common Prayer. They will gladly give you one or you can find one online at BCPRead through it. There is a wealth of information in there that is organized in a somewhat reasonable fashion as well as lots of info on the rites, ceremony and history of Christianity.In particular, look at the confession (there are several different wordings) that are part of the service. IMHO it is a great example of what Christianity is all about. Here is one version.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion