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Author Topic:   Maine legalizes gay marriage
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 12 of 92 (507685)
05-07-2009 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by subbie
05-06-2009 7:30 PM


The fundamentalist position
subbie writes:
However, some have proposed a much broader religious freedom protection to accompany gay marriage legislation that would allow any individual to opt out of participating in a gay marriage in any fashion (photographer, florist, etc) if the marriage violates their sincerely held religious beliefs.
While your topic is focused on marriage, this is not the focus of the fundamentalists. In his June 2008 newsletter, Focus on the Family leader Dr. James Dobson, writing about his disgust with the Colorado legislature and a new state law, says:
quote:
It adds a prohibition against discrimination in sexual orientation to more than 23 separate provisions of Colorado law that already prohibit discrimination in various areas of public life. Some of them threaten the religious liberties of every Christian, Jewish or Muslim business owner who operates a business on faith-based principles. A refusal to do business with someone based on a sincerely held religious belief that homosexuality is wrong would violate the law. In addition to civil fines and penalties, small-business owners can be prosecuted under the criminal laws of Colorado and spend up to one year in jail for trying to live according to their faith.
Those wishing to express their outrage to the officials responsible for this new law can reach Governor Bill Ritter at:...
Apparently the position of FOF is that discrimination by Christian business people is ok if it is justified by a "sincerely held religious belief". I wrote and asked them about supporting a refusal to serve non-Christians by Christian businesses based on a sincerely held religious belief that those people shouldn't worship a false God. They refused to support that particular discrimination because of the long-standing U.S. tradition of religious freedom.
I guess "sincerely held religious belief" can only go so far.
I did write again and asked if doctors and pharmacists were among the Christian business people who they felt should be allowed to refuse to serve homosexuals based on their "sincerely held religious belief". No reply from them.
I am not undecided. To allow this discrimination would open the door for more, just as the fundamentalists want.
Jesus sat down to eat with sinners and was criticized for it by the religious leaders. Now the fundamentalist powers that be want to criticize Christian business people for serving "sinners". Some things don't really change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by subbie, posted 05-06-2009 7:30 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by subbie, posted 05-07-2009 1:22 PM LinearAq has not replied

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 42 of 92 (507846)
05-08-2009 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Artemis Entreri
05-07-2009 9:34 PM


What?!!!
Artemis Entreri writes:
Say you are a Judge who signs marriage certificates, it is you job to determine if the requesters should be married or not. its your conscience, and your opinon, if you happend to be a judge who held strong religious feeling against gay marriage, then dont sign the marrige liscense, you are not discriminating, and the law can force you from your religious beliefs. wow now that i think of it this point is crucial.
What if you happened to be a judge who held a strong religious belief against Buddhism? Should you be allowed to determine that 2 Buddhists shouldn't get married so the religion is not spread through their children? What if the judge had a religious conviction against interfaith marriage?
Let's broaden this a bit. Substitute any other discriminating parameter for "gay" in the argument.
Should a caterer be held accountable for refusing to provide service for an interracial wedding because of his personal religious objections?
Should a caterer be held accountable for refusing to provide service for an interfaith wedding because of his personal religious objections? In this case a pastor would probably be well within his rights to refuse to officiate at the marriage.
In both cases I think that the caterer in question would be vilified in the press. Do you believe that he should not?
For the others who are undecided about the caterer-and-gay-wedding issue. Are you also undecided about the two cases I proposed above?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Artemis Entreri, posted 05-07-2009 9:34 PM Artemis Entreri has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by subbie, posted 05-08-2009 7:41 PM LinearAq has replied

  
LinearAq
Member (Idle past 4697 days)
Posts: 598
From: Pocomoke City, MD
Joined: 11-03-2004


Message 73 of 92 (508193)
05-11-2009 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by subbie
05-08-2009 7:41 PM


Re: What?!!!
subbie writes:
LinearAq writes:
Should a caterer be held accountable for refusing to provide service for an interracial wedding because of his personal religious objections?
Should a caterer be held accountable for refusing to provide service for an interfaith wedding because of his personal religious objections? In this case a pastor would probably be well within his rights to refuse to officiate at the marriage.
In both cases I think that the caterer in question would be vilified in the press. Do you believe that he should not?
Irrelevant to the topic. We all have the right to do innumerable things that would we be vilified in the press for doing.
Then should the caterers in the two instances above be held criminally liable or be judged liable in a civil suit? (Please forgive any inexact usage of legal terminology).
You seem to agree that the two instances proposed by me are the same as the issues involving services for gay weddings. Is it really a matter of public opinion? Shouldn't the laws that govern the issues of racial discrimination cover this situation equally as well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by subbie, posted 05-08-2009 7:41 PM subbie has not replied

  
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