Terrorism in London

EDIT: Never mind, no need to answer. It's off topic anyway, and I don't want to get into another shooting match with the accusers around here.* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Good points CSteve. If we Christians were like the Muslims, especially considering that at the time of the American Founders Christians were the great majority in the nation, no Deist could have had a say in anything, or possibly even remained alive, all other religions would be paying tax to us and stepping off the sidewalks when passing us on foot, and there never would have been a First Amendment -- which is now giving Islamicists legal protection in America.Only one point of difference with what you said: Christians DON'T have an "ultimate aim" of making everyone Christian as we know God does the choosing, not we, and Jesus said only "few" will find the way in the end. However, we have the DESIRE that all be saved by Christ for their own sake and since we don't know whom God will choose we give the gospel to all. Islam, however, has a mandate to make the entire world Muslim eventually.This message has been edited by Faith, 07-09-2005 09:30 PM

That doesn't make a word of what I said untrue.This message has been edited by Faith, 07-09-2005 09:47 PM

YOu don't remember any of these verses?http://www.angelfire.com/moon/yoelnatan/koranwarpassages.htm

The first three are quotes BY Jesus, and we also believe that Jesus IS the God of the Old Testament.

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Luke 22:36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be *accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end."
38 So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords."
And He said to them, "It is enough."

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Oh that bloodthirsty Jesus, suggesting that after He is gone they may have need to defend themselves, and yet TWO swords are enough among them.

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Luke 14:25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it-- 29

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In context it is clear that they must be willing to accept that their own relatives will reject them when they turn to Jesus, even to killing them, as this is all about what they must be prepared to give up for His sake, preferring nothing in this world more than Him, including their own lives.

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John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you* will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. 9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

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Definitely a warning here, that a Christian MUST bear fruit or be cast off -- because he is not abiding in Christ.And the command to kill the Amalekites was also a warning -- they had transgressed by their opposition to God and that is how God will ultimately deal with all transgressors. But only in the Old Testament does He deal with them by using His own people as the instrument.This message has been edited by Faith, 07-09-2005 10:18 PMThis message has been edited by Faith, 07-09-2005 10:22 PM

Quite true. There is certainly no threat of suicide bombings from Jews or Christians, or any standing order to "slay them wherever you find them."This message has been edited by Faith, 07-09-2005 10:32 PM

What I said was, there is no standing order to "slay them where you find them." There is nothing in the Bible that commands Christians to do such things. Your claims do not change that fact.

What I said was, there is no standing order to "slay them where you find them," and I'll say it again. There is no STANDING ORDER to slay anyone as there is in the Koran. You quote the laws given to ancient Israel, which was a theocracy, laws NOT addressed to the reader or even to the average Israelite of the time, but given to the elders of the Israelites of the time to enact according to the rule of law. Early Puritan America did have laws based on the Old Testament, many calling for capital punishment, did regard themselves as something like a theocracy, and they required due process as laws do. They were not addressed to the people to be carried out willy nilly "wherever you find them," but to be enacted according to the rule of law in a court. The Koran addresses the reader.This message has been edited by Faith, 07-10-2005 02:51 AM

Where do you get this idea? This is not what the majority of Christians believe. We believe that when Jesus returns the majority will still not be ruled by God. There is no coercion of belief preached or even considered to be possible. Christianity has no notion of there ever being a world-wide theocracy. The best we hope is that God's law may be widely honored and obeyed, at the very least in formerly Christian lands, and that many people will be saved. The gospel is "not of this world" and has no aim to subdue the whole world. On the other hand, Islam is a religion of violent coercion. It was in the beginning when Mohammed couldn't get people to accept it -- he simply forced them to accept it at swordpoint. That's how the whole Arab world became Muslim. Since then there have always been the jihadic factions who believe in taking the world for Allah by force, and the Koran does support their doing that whether all interpret the Koran in that way or not. Oh really. Christians and Jews ostracize you? Seems to me you have a lot of freedom to say what you please against Christianity without any danger of being ostracized and destroyed for it. Um, his name is CANADIAN Steve, remember? He's also not a Christian, which can be judged by his spelling God as "G-d."Has it ever occurred to you to treat an opponent with respect, not accuse them of "ignorance" just because you happen to disagree with them? Your tactic of ridicule is rude in the extreme.

The whole context is the founding of a theocracy as the people are called to make a covenant with their King, who is God Himself (Ex 19:5; 24:7-8). Like the earthly kings of the day, God gave the people the laws that would rule them, laws straight from the mouth of God in this case rather than by an earthly king such as Hammurabi.The context is God's giving of the law to Moses on Sinai (Exodus 19-32), and Moses' then giving it to the people and writing it down (24:4). In chapter 18 you see Moses acting as judge before the people and his father-in-law Jethro advising him to appoint rulers to do that work. This is clearly a primitive court situation in the desert. Many chapters are given to describing the various laws. Chapter 22 is where you found the few that bother you so much, 18-20, the law to put a witch or sorceress to death, the law to put a person caught in bestiality to death, the law to put an idolater to death. Bestiality seems like it might possibly be out of context but the other two are clearly appropriate in a theocracy.Also, the people agree to obey all the laws (Ex 24:3), Saying "All the words which the LORD has said will we do." It's not as if anything was forced upon anyone.When the punishment of a transgression is required it is done by "all the people" which probably means the male leaders as all the people would be too many. When Achan and his family were put to death for his transgression this is how it is described (Joshua 7:24-26). His transgression was judged before the people and the punishment was enacted. That's how law works in a community. It's a matter of context, not a specific verse.

Your assumption that you are right and he wrong is staggeringly rude. You disagree with him. You have no right to judge him as ignorant. One could certainly call you that on a number of points.

Ugh, you are a disgustingly shallow mean-spirited young man. You aren't worth responding to as I keep discovering. Ugh. Blach. Read through the sequence of posts you ignorant arrogant dolt.