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Author Topic:   Definition and Effect of Having A Soul
lfen
Member (Idle past 3228 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 16 of 29 (337854)
08-04-2006 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by robinrohan
08-03-2006 2:45 PM


A sense of harmony? What harmony? I haven't noticed much harmony.

Well, pay attention!;)
That is to say meditate.:cool:

lfen


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3228 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 17 of 29 (337855)
08-04-2006 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
08-03-2006 9:05 AM



I would like to asks everyone what is their definition of a soul?

Some believe we have one and some don't.

What is it that would have this "soul"? The soul is a possession or a part? That is implied by the English grammatical construction.

For me I think the non dual teachings of sage Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj points to a deeper understanding:

In every body there is a dream, but the dreamer is the same, the one Self, which reflects itself in each body as "I am".

All the dreams are of a common imaginary World and influence each other.

Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity.

http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm

Anything we point to as an object is subject to change. The body that is typing this can lose it's hands but still I am. The mind that is thinking can change its opinions but still I am. The feelings expressed change but still I am. So I am not body, ideas, feelings. Anything I can point to is an object. I am the subject. I don't have a soul. I could put it that I am a soul and further point out that there being only one it's the same soul for everyone. The diversity is out there in the perceived manifesting universe.

lfen


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Larni
Member
Posts: 3992
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 18 of 29 (337857)
08-04-2006 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by graft2vine
08-03-2006 5:17 PM


graft2vine writes:

Your soul is simply your entire being.

So your soul includes your hair and teeth?


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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 471 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 19 of 29 (337874)
08-04-2006 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
08-03-2006 9:05 AM


I see the soul as part of your being, your mind, and your conscience.
I believe most of that will be left behind once we die.

I believe there is a spirit in there also. I knew nothing of my spirit until God made me aware of it.

I had a vision once. I was with a large group of people, and we were all going to heaven, and waiting to meet the Father. There was an intemedaite room, where we were stripped of all things of this world, and were allowed to adjust for a period of time. THere was an awesome purifying white light that filled the room, and stripped us of all the BS of this world.
As we were waiting to meet God, we turned and looked at each other, and we could see how we each had been stripped of the things of this world, and we realized, hey we are the same. There was no preconceived notions about anything. It didn't matter if you were black, white, gay, girl, guy, there was instant love upon looking at each other, and peace and joy knowing where we were going together. It was like everyone was your best friend, and we were in the playground together.


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 29 (337907)
08-04-2006 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
08-03-2006 9:05 AM


I second that.
Here are some description upthread that I agree with.

jar writes:

the word soul refers to that part of me which is immortal, which will continue after I die

Faith writes:

Now I equate it (the soul) with my I-ness, my consciousness, my whole feeling-thinking-willing self apart from my body, which I was always aware of but for some reason didn't identify by the term "soul," the invisible part of me which is the real me.

The soul is some kind of non-physical/spiritual component of our existence. There’s a lot of differences in what people think it is, but it is clear that we’re all talking about something. There IS something there. Is it a delusion? I conclude that it is not.


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 29 (337910)
08-04-2006 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by sidelined
08-03-2006 11:40 AM


I would equate it with a sense of harmony in reference to the connection between a person's consciousness and the world around them. That said I also think this to be an illusion resulting from the structure of the brain and nervous system. This does not make it any less special in terms of human activity just less mystical.

So we got this brain that has no nerves attached to a system of nerves that the brain is constantly recieving input from. The brain 'feels' the seperation from the body that makes people think that they are something other than their body (brain included). But this is a self delusion resulting from the constant nervous input to the brain with no input from the brain.

To me, this doesn't cover the all feelings I have that I do have a soul. It seems more to me than just that. I don't find this explanation convincing because there's more to it, to me. It does make sense how some of the feeling I have could be caused by this though.

We humans tend to give greater weight to the things that happen in our own skulls as though we are incapable of decieving ourselves in order to support the illusion we find give us hope ,purpose or meaning in the universe.

Certainly a valid position for you to take. You've got the bases covered but I just can't get over the 'obvious' existence of my soul. Is it that the delusion is just that good, maybe that I want to be deluded? I've considered all this and still have to conclude that I do have a soul. (Not that you're trying to convince me otherwise.)


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 29 (337912)
08-04-2006 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by lfen
08-04-2006 3:40 AM


I could put it that I am a soul and further point out that there being only one it's the same soul for everyone. The diversity is out there in the perceived manifesting universe.

That reminds me of a line from the System of a Down song Aerials:

quote:
Life is a waterfall,
We're one in the river,
And one again after the fall.

Our souls are like the droplets in the waterfall...whadaya think?


Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"

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Larni
Member
Posts: 3992
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 23 of 29 (337918)
08-04-2006 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by New Cat's Eye
08-04-2006 10:49 AM


Re: I second that.
Catholic Scientist writes:

I conclude that it is not.

On what basis do you draw your conclusion?

Catholic Scientist writes:

So we got this brain that has no nerves attached to a system of nerves that the brain is constantly recieving input from. The brain 'feels' the seperation from the body that makes people think that they are something other than their body (brain included). But this is a self delusion resulting from the constant nervous input to the brain with no input from the brain.

This is not quite true, the brain is (in part) an arrangement of specialized nerve cells. It has no afferant or efferant nerve cells. It has none of these because there is no need for them in organisms. They would just take up space.

The brain and the spinal cord (CNS) are what gives meaning to the data from the affernt nerve cells and are the origen of the signals transmitted by the efferant nerve cells. So there is out put from the brain.

Edited by Larni, : No reason given.


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3228 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 24 of 29 (337932)
08-04-2006 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by New Cat's Eye
08-04-2006 11:11 AM


Our souls are like the droplets in the waterfall...whadaya think?

I think that is a good metaphor. Variations of it are used frequently by Eastern sages, sometimes in the metaphor of a river arriving at the sea.

I would emphasize that the sense of individual "soul" comes from a temporary configuration of water, that is to say that it is momentarily a drop and has mistaken that "form" for its substance when it is water and though the form may cease the substance endures.

lfen


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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 29 (337937)
08-04-2006 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by lfen
08-04-2006 3:30 AM


That is to say meditate

I'll work on it.


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lfen
Member (Idle past 3228 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 26 of 29 (337944)
08-04-2006 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by robinrohan
08-04-2006 1:41 PM


really! :eek:

lfen


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Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 27 of 29 (338033)
08-04-2006 11:04 PM


I think this post I put on robinrohan's belief thread really belonged here.

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 4459 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 28 of 29 (338051)
08-05-2006 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by New Cat's Eye
08-04-2006 11:05 AM


Catholic Scientist

But this is a self delusion resulting from the constant nervous input to the brain with no input from the brain.

Well the brain does input in the sense that it coordinates the nervous system and its responses. With the sensation of a body and the emotions and feelings mitigated by the chemicals within our brain we have a very good illusion of a transcendent "soul".

Further we find that our emotions and feelings that some attribute to a immaterial soul can be altered or even shut down by physical changes within the brain {alcohol,drugs, damage to the structures of the brain} and such is presumably not a possibilty for something that is immaterial.

Is it that the delusion is just that good, maybe that I want to be deluded? I've considered all this and still have to conclude that I do have a soul. (Not that you're trying to convince me otherwise.)

Well I think deception is more likely than delusion in that we are capable of lying to ourselves and ,indeed, there are studies that seem to bear out the idea that the deceit is often necessary in order to maintain a healthy functioning mind. The list of strange conditions that hint strongly that the brain is complex in ways that are truly strange. Conditions such as Caprgras or Cotard's syndrome or Blindsight or phantom limbs seem to be very difficult to explain with the inclusion of a soul that is presumably immune to such things.

As you say though I do not try to convince you of the validity of my view but simply wish to point out that your notion of the soul has to explain the same things that any other person must regardless of their
POV.


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Ben!
Member
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 29 of 29 (338052)
08-05-2006 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Larni
08-03-2006 9:05 AM


To what does the English word Soul refer to in your mind.

Not to be a bitch, but... words don't refer. People use words to attempt to refer. So I'd rephrase the question as, "what do you use the word 'soul' to attempt to refer to?"

When I talk to people who I think believe in an eternal soul, I use the word to refer to their conception of an eternal soul.

When I talk to people who don't believe in an eternal soul, I don't use the word soul.

When a person uses the word "soul" to attempt to refer, I take them to be referencing some idea of self. That misconception of individuality and separateness which makes me say,

"MINE!"

I think lots of people tend to use the word like Ringo, to talk about the "essence" of us--the things that make us human, make us good, make us worthwhile.. if I'm understanding Ringo properly. I wouldn't refer to that as "soul"... unless I was having a friendly dialog with Ringo using Ringo's terms.


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