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Author
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Topic: Abortion questions...?
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 99 of 403 (601727)
01-23-2011 5:15 PM
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As a Christian on Abortion
As a Christian I think Abortion must be legal and available to all. I have never found anyone that takes abortion trivially, it is not simply another method of birth control, it is not murder or homicide, and any attempt to restrict abortion I find immoral and reprehensible.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 109 of 403 (601792)
01-24-2011 9:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 104 by Buzsaw
01-24-2011 12:04 AM
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Ban Abortion?
Buz writes: The federal government should allow the states to ban it. That's the way it was before Roe Wade. That's my position. Why repeat what failed in the past and was even more immoral, unjust and caused so much suffering? The States did not ban abortions, they only made getting or performing an abortion illegal. The result was that abortions continued to happen, but they were not done by trained doctors in hygienic hospitals. I will admit though that your plan would be great for the herbal sales businesses, another product that could be advertised and marketed on Christian Radio.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 104 by Buzsaw, posted 01-24-2011 12:04 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 120 of 403 (601892)
01-24-2011 9:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 119 by Iblis
01-24-2011 8:34 PM
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Re: God commanded a very very very late term abortion did he not?
Gotta point out to you the same thing I do when the Christians quote mine. Look at both of those in context.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 119 by Iblis, posted 01-24-2011 8:34 PM | | Iblis has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by Iblis, posted 01-24-2011 9:17 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 122 of 403 (601897)
01-24-2011 9:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 121 by Iblis
01-24-2011 9:17 PM
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Re: God commanded a very very very late term abortion did he not?
Because it is context skew, quote mining, and I jump on the other Christians when they do that as well. They too are wrong comparing the Akedah to advanced contraception, but it is a funny image.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 121 by Iblis, posted 01-24-2011 9:17 PM | | Iblis has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 152 of 403 (602098)
01-26-2011 10:14 AM
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Reply to: Message 148 by slevesque
01-26-2011 3:45 AM
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Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
slevesque writes: And certainly unacceptable that people think these deaths somehow justify feeling comfortable about paying 500$ to abort a foetus. As a Christian I find your idea that anyone is comfortable about an abortions appalling. Very few abortions are simply done to remain comfortable. It is a traumatic decision and not taken lightly. If you are really concerned about abortions then start a movement to adopt any and all unwanted children and raise them until at least age eighteen.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 148 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 3:45 AM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 154 of 403 (602100)
01-26-2011 10:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 153 by subbie
01-26-2011 10:19 AM
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Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
subbie writes: jar writes: If you are really concerned about abortions then start a movement to adopt any and all unwanted children and raise them until at least age eighteen. And begin education programs that teach kids how to avoid pregnancy. Amen ... Preach the Gospel!! Teach the kids how to use a condom, alternate sex practices, other birth control methods, what is involved in parenting, what responsibility means. And start the education early before the hormones kick in.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 153 by subbie, posted 01-26-2011 10:19 AM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
slevesque writes: jar writes: As a Christian I find your idea that anyone is comfortable about an abortions appalling. Very few abortions are simply done to remain comfortable. It is a traumatic decision and not taken lightly. Oh but come on, some people do feel absolutely comfortable with it. How then could they be at their 10th abortion ? or 15th ? I'm not saying this is a majority of people, but it is certainly present. I'm not even sure that is true and would go so far as to say that it is more likely another example of "Lying for Jesus".
slevesque writes: jar writes: If you are really concerned about abortions then start a movement to adopt any and all unwanted children and raise them until at least age eighteen. I try to do my part in this world. And even though I am part of a small christian community, we already have over 1 million dollars invested in Haiti (since before the disaster, obviously). And we also support a home made for young women who want to keep their child instead of aborting it, where they have support from professionals. Don't think I'm concerned only in words with these things. And it is great that you help support a home made for young women so they can keep their children.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 164 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 1:22 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Soul Math - 2nd Semester
slevesque writes:
Yes, but a baby still can't survive outside the womb if what was given to it inside by the mother isn't still given to it once outside. It's not like it was fused with the mother when it's inside. It's only connected to it and exchanging the necessary nutriments it needs. This exchange continues once outside, albeit in a different way. Let's talk about premature babies. To the best of my knowledge only a few babies born before the start of the third trimester have survived and those were all born right near 24-25 weeks gestation. In only a few cases (less than a dozen) have such premature babies have survived long enough to get discharged from the hospital. Since third trimester abortions are banned except in the case of imminent danger to the mothers life we are not talking about a viable human in the case of almost all current US abortions. While the survival rate of premature babies has gone up, generally we are talking about babies between week 30 and 37 of gestation, around seven to eight and a half months gestation. The fetuses involved in almost all abortions cannot live outside the womb even with the best medical care available today or in the foreseeable future.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 172 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 3:18 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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I doubt there are any "pro-abortion" people
UK Home | Daily Mail Online I figure if she felt uncomfortable about abortion, she would not have had 15 just to make here husband feel bad. And I personnally know a girl who has had multiple abortions and is very comfortable with it. Now, I know that an abortion is a serious thing, and that it can have some pretty big psychological effects on a woman, especially if she is young. I have another friend, who's mother's friend cries everytime she sees her because she reminds here of the abortions she had at about the same time my friend was born. But I think it's just like anything else. Some people feel bad about lying, others don't. Some feel bad about stealing, and others don't. etc. I don't see how it owuld be different about abortion. Besides, this is clearly irrelevant in determining if it is morally right or wrong to do so. So yes, there may well be people that have abortions and are comfortable with it. But so what? It is often the best choice. Hopefully they understand that they made the best decision they could. One case which may or may not be true (the daily mail is about as reliable as quoting a Christian website) but it is NOT even a big issue then. Look at your other examples though, a woman that feels bad because she had an abortion. That sounds like a very normal experience.
And it almost got shut down by pro-abortionists lobbying who bashed it in the news. I'm not saying all pro-choice are against places like these, but to me it is surprising that some would want a place like that to close. Again, I would want more information. I have NEVER found anyone that is pro-abortion; that is just another example of Christian misrepresentation.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 174 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 3:35 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Soul Math - 2nd Semester
slevesque writes: I don't see how our current technological development has anything to do with the ''human status'' of such and such a foetus at such and such a stage. There's nothing ''magical'' about the womb, and if we could mimick it perfectly in a lab, and premature babies would then survive, would they then suddenly become humans ? We can't create such a lab. If and when we can, then we can revisit the question.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 180 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 4:01 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Soul Math - 2nd Semester
slevesque writes: We can't create such a lab. If and when we can, then we can revisit the question. Your assuming something is human simply because socially we say it is or not. If in the future, a 20 weeks old foetus can survive outside the womb, it will be considered a human, but at the same time right now it isn't ? Of course.
You have this very twisted view of christians, and apply it to me constantly. I don't want to argue on semantics. But if being anti-abortion means someone who is against abortion, pro-abortion is nothing more then someone who is for abortion. I ascribe no pejorative connotations to the word. I can use pro-choice if it shocks you less. As for more information, I'll try to find the news article, but it'll be in french. But after the article, a political party wanted the government to impse a pro-choice certification, that would mean that you cannot counsel a pregnant woman if the organism isn't pro-choice. If it is in French then it is very likely not about the US, which happens to be the laws we are discussing. Pro-choice and pro-abortion are not synonymous and yes, using them as though they were is very dishonest. Remember, I am a Christian, so it not that I have a twisted view of "Christians" but rather find many positions held by Christians to be abhorrent and immoral as well as simply based on ignorance and the misrepresentations by much of the US Christian Clergy. I have no idea about you, I can only address the content of your posts. I don't know of anyone that is for abortion. Abortions are not generally taken lightly. BUT stop and think. Even when it was illegal to perform abortions, abortions happened. If you make them illegal, they will continue to happen. The only difference is that the will not happen under trained care in sanitary conditions. Remember, it was Christians, particularly the Southern Baptists, that were at the forefront of legalizing abortion in the US. It was a moral decision.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 186 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 4:26 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Soul Math - 2nd Semester
slevesque writes: So when we socially decided black people weren't humans, they weren't ? And when we decided they were humans, they suddenly became humans ? I have much difficulty of this view that reality conforms to the definition we make. But guess what, when talking about a society reality does conform to the definitions the society makes.
slevesque writes: jar writes: Pro-choice and pro-abortion are not synonymous and yes, using them as though they were is very dishonest. Pro-abortion means you are for abortion to be legal. Nothing more then that. It doesn't mean someone absolutely wants to kill the most foetuses it can ... Perhaps to you but not to the rest of the world.
slevesque writes: jar writes: I don't know of anyone that is for abortion. Abortions are not generally taken lightly. BUT stop and think. Even when it was illegal to perform abortions, abortions happened. If you make them illegal, they will continue to happen. The only difference is that the will not happen under trained care in sanitary conditions. Which tells us that the issue of abortion isn't about the legality of it. It is about how we, as a society view it. I am advocating that we should encourage a solid moral foundations, which I think is christianity, in which the illegal aspect of abortion would be a natural outflow, as would the joyful aspect of giving life, even if not in the best circumstances. I'm sorry but that comes across as word salad. Again, I am a Christian, the legalization of abortion in the US was driven by Christians. I do not see any indication that Christianity is any more moral a foundation then many other options including atheism.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 191 by slevesque, posted 01-26-2011 4:53 PM | | slevesque has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 208 of 403 (602278)
01-27-2011 9:17 AM
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Reply to: Message 205 by onifre
01-27-2011 2:08 AM
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Re: Bump For Abortion Issues
But as you can see by the evidence, "directing" your sexual pulsions is not something the majority of humans can do. Look up the medical definition of pulsions. I would say that pregnancies are a pretty good indication that pulsions do get directed.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 205 by onifre, posted 01-27-2011 2:08 AM | | onifre has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Evidence?
Why do you want to kill babies ? So far no one other than you has even mentioned killing babies.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 226 by slevesque, posted 01-28-2011 3:04 PM | | slevesque has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 231 by slevesque, posted 01-28-2011 3:48 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Evidence?
I'm giving you the freakin' definition of the word. You're not humpty-dumpty and words don't mean what you want them to mean. Sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but there is nothing pejorative about calling someone pro-abortion. Actually, the terms pro-life and pro-choice are classic examples of Humpty-Dumpty definitions. I'll give the folk marketing the anti-abortion, pro-forced parenthood, pro-rape parenthood, pro-incest parenthood, pro illicit abortion, pro uncontrolled abortion position lots of credit for choosing the moniker "pro-life". But the fact is that they did just decide what the words would mean.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 235 by slevesque, posted 01-28-2011 4:14 PM | | slevesque has replied |
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