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Author Topic:   Abortion questions...?
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 7 of 403 (327497)
06-29-2006 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LudoRephaim
06-29-2006 12:51 PM


I think birth is an arbitrary although convienent cutoff for deciding when a fetus becomes a person.
Before I somehow offended Chiro, we seemed to be having a good discussion on the other abortion thread about criteria for determining consciousness.
ABE: Here were the messages
Message 14
Message 21
Message 40
Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-29-2006 12:51 PM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-29-2006 1:36 PM Jazzns has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 11 of 403 (327501)
06-29-2006 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by LudoRephaim
06-29-2006 1:36 PM


Re: Jazz it UP
No, that is just as silly IMO as trying to define the personness of a fetus based on a comparison of its intellectual capacity and that of other animals.
My whole point was talking about criteria for consciousness, sentients, personness whatever you want to call it.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by LudoRephaim, posted 06-29-2006 1:36 PM LudoRephaim has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3933 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 13 of 403 (327504)
06-29-2006 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Chiroptera
06-29-2006 1:38 PM


I hope whatever I did to turn you off of our last discussion does not dissuade you from talking to me now. If I offended you I appologize.
As I said before, I don't know when a baby beomes human in the sense of acquiring human rights; I simply use birth as a cut-off because (a) I believe that before birth the infant definitely does not have a consciousness, and (b) after birth there is a period where the doubts increase, and so birth is the safest point at which to make this cut-off.
I can see how this discussion could turn into a slippery slope but what is the measurable difference between the potential for consciousness right after birth and the day before? I realize that you are expressing your opinion and that it is based on a tentative notion of what you believe is right but to me it still seems rather arbitrary.
For me I would probably pick 20 weeks gestation as my "comfort" zone for the similar reasons you listed above. But again it would be only based on what I think and not anything concrete. I would pick 20 weeks because that is closer to when we are pretty sure the brain starts working.
I guess I would feel much better if we could identify some more specific and diagnostic means of making a determination. Birth seems "dangerously" arbitrary to me.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 06-29-2006 1:38 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Chiroptera, posted 06-29-2006 2:14 PM Jazzns has not replied

  
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