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Member (Idle past 5110 days) Posts: 651 From: Jareth's labyrinth Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Abortion questions...? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
as a Christian I feel abortion is wrong, and it is homicide, and a cardinal sin.
as an American I feel as if it is wrong to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their body. also as an American I feel it is wrong to hold others to my moral and religious views, and make them have the same views by law. I would try and tell someone who wanted to have an abortion to not have one and think about it, but I would do nothing from preventing them from using their free will and making their own choices in life. I would also seek to keep legislation that allows for personal choices. You can educate right and wrong but you cannot legislate it.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
subbie writes: I cannot understand anyone who thinks it's homicide, but believes it should not be outlawed. there are legal homicides, this is one of them. I prefer not to hide behind the veil of denial, as we split hairs on "what is life?" or "what is a person?". I know some here are fond of that underhanded tactic, but I prefer to shoot from the hip. For me life begins at conception, and abortion is homicide, but so is capitol punishment, self-defense, war, etc. I choose free-choice in this one.
buzsaw writes: The problem I have with that is that it's not her body that's in question. It's that other person's body which she and it's father caused to become a live human being and perhaps a living soul as some of us agree is the case. According to Luke 1, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb and leaped in the womb of Elizabeth when Mary greeted her. unless you can remove the foetus, and raise it in a device of some sort, then the womans body is very much in question. she wants it out of her, she may not want it dead but she want no part of it. I do not see why some feel it is fine to force women to be pregnant.
buzsaw writes: It's about killing a person more than what's moral. Should the babe be less safe in the womb than one minute out of the womb? i do not think that it is.
buzsaw writes: There was a time when our nation did legislate it as unlawfully killing that other person unable to speak for and defend itself against pain and death.
when, and where?I think this was and still should be a state's rights issue, the Federal government has no real business in this one. Edited by Artemis Entreri, : I'll reply to Buzsaw and Subbie in the same one i guess Edited by Artemis Entreri, : i cant spel, or prevew Edited by Artemis Entreri, : ugh
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
yep, underhanded tactics, of talking about something else other than the original thought, it all this site is good for.
EvC should be called "beating around the bush". Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
Onifre writes: True. But if you equate abortion with homicide, then you'll also have to include birth control methods as homicidal methods, to stay consistent. It's all working at the cellular level.
I am not sure. preventing life from occuring (conception), is not consistent with destroying a life that already exists. Maybe I misread you, but I do not see the corelation.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
not the kind i use.
if there are those that prevent implantation, then i think that is an abortion too.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
geez i go on vacation for a week, and this thread blew up.
onifre writes: So would you call that method of birth control a homicidal method? sure, why not.
onifre writes: It is all life, at different stages. They're all the same cells at one particular stage of the process or another. If the destruction of one set of sells is ok, why isn't the other set of cells ok to destroy?
because one set is human and one set is not.
onifre writes: From a more religious perspective, if it's a soul you're destroying, wouldn't the sperm and the egg both be carrying half the soul? Wouldn't destroying sperm and eggs be the same a destroying half a human soul every single time?
i don't know, you know catholicism as well as i do. sex is for procreation or its wrong. that is the rule. BTW I am a huge sinner, according to this rule. I am not aborting any human life though.
onifre writes: How many half-human souls have been lost during the course of the average male's life? Or female's life?
a lot, more for males i would guess, but all those halves added up cannot make 1 human; and therefore not 1 soul either.
I'm just trying to find some consistency here. i hear you, i dont have the answer for everything.
You just blew my fucking mind!
LOL
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
slevesque writes: Yes I know that's the point. But why does this logic strictly apply to sex ? Why does in every other aspect of life, we view it as better to teach them something when they are ready ?
I always thought parents did the teaching when they were ready, not when the children were ready. My parents were obviously uncomfortable with the birds and the bees talk, and I learned about it in 6th grade. Knowledge is the key, and people start soaking it in from birth onwards, we are always ready to learn knew information. IMO teaching younger kinds about reproduction is the better method. I learn thigns on this site (mostly about how crazy liberals and the british are, but sometimes its more substanitive).
We're not teaching our kids to drive at 13 years old, even if some do steal their parent's car at that age. Why don't we teach them, ''just in case they steal the car'' ? i do not follow your reasoning, all this "just in case talk". I started driving when I was 14, and my dad was in the passenger seat instructing me. at 1st it was all back roads in rural Illinois (the roads are very straight and go on for miles). after a few times they let me drive to church on Sundays, driving is really not that hard, I think some 13 years could learn. especially if you can already ride a dirtbike or ATV.
Certainly, you don't teach you son to fire a gun at 10 years old, just in case he stumbles upon it. You teach him at whatever age you feel he is ready, and only at that age do you also let him go hunting with his friends, after you have showed him how to shoot.
certainly? why not? I fired my first gun in Cub Scouts; I was around 10 years old. it was a ruger 10-22. like other topics knowledge is not the problem here. I fired my 1st automatic (an automatic czech AK-47) at age 11 @ with my uncle in Missouri, my 9 year brother was there and he fired it too. It was AWESOME! I didn't start hunting till I was 32 years old (september 2010); learned about guns/saftey and the 2nd amendment much earlier. My little brother (now 29.75 years old) still doesn't hunt; guns are not about hunting from our perspective.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
slevesque writes: That's why I'm saying, if people judge 12 years old is old enough for them to actually have intercourse, then I can understand wanting sex.ed to be done at that age. But if someone agrees with me that 12 years old is too young, then how can you justify sex.ed at that age, when it is contrary to what we do in all other aspects of life ?
so programs like keeping kids from smoking and drinking should be delayed until they are 18 (for smoking/dipping/chewing), and 21 (for alcohol consupmtion). maybe civics is a bad class, because you can't vote until you are 18 so you do not need to know about it. Since the penalty of most crimes is quite petty until you are 16-18 years old maybe we should not instruct people about the law until they are of that age? I am talking about reproduction here, the natural product of intercourse. I do not understand the logic of if someone isn't old enough to do something then they should be ignorant about it, especially in this information age that we live in. some kids learn to read before they learn it in school, is that wrong?
ringo writes: Teaching them how to do it is redundant. Telling them not to do it is futile. What they need to be taught is how to control the consequences.
or they can just have an abortion Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
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Artemis Entreri  Suspended Member (Idle past 4255 days) Posts: 1194 From: Northern Virginia Joined: |
onifre writes: Sperm in my nut sack is not human? What is it? Amphibian? Talk about rapid evolution.
that was a typo i meant "a human" not "not human cells", i can't proof read my own text at all.
Oh wait, you don't get pregnant because you are a man? Then you'll never have to worry about making that decision. Which is the beauty of being a man; you can sin all up in her vag, never get pregnant, but judge her for her decisions of what to do with her body.
i hate to make this assumption, but i guess you are being sarcastic, because I wasn't judging anyone. I made the assumption because you are usually spot on, instead of taking me out of context like this.
What?! You've just claimed reproduction doesn't happen? When a sperm and an egg unite, that is exactly what happens: the two halves unite to make a zygote(not a human obviously.)
this has to be a joke, we weren't even talking about that, i have no idea where this strawman came from.
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