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Member (Idle past 5111 days) Posts: 651 From: Jareth's labyrinth Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Abortion questions...? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Buzsaw Inactive Member |
This thread appears to be quite appropriate for those who wish to address the abortion issues so as not to derail other threads.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
Artemis Entreri writes: as a Christian I feel abortion is wrong, and it is homicide, and a cardinal sin. as an American I feel as if it is wrong to tell someone else what they can and cannot do with their body. The problem I have with that is that it's not her body that's in question. It's that other person's body which she and it's father caused to become a live human being and perhaps a living soul as some of us agree is the case. According to Luke 1, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from the womb and leaped in the womb of Elizabeth when Mary greeted her.
also as an American I feel it is wrong to hold others to my moral and religious views, and make them have the same views by law. It's about killing a person more than what's moral. Should the babe be less safe in the womb than one minute out of the womb?
I would try and tell someone who wanted to have an abortion to not have one and think about it, but I would do nothing from preventing them from using their free will and making their own choices in life. I would also seek to keep legislation that allows for personal choices. You can educate right and wrong but you cannot legislate it. There was a time when our nation did legislate it as unlawfully killing that other person unable to speak for and defend itself against pain and death. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: What about the cases where she is forced? The place to start is with those of mutual consent. The legality of exemption for others could be on a case by case basis. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
subbie writes: .I wasn't aware there was ever a Federal Law banning abortion. Do you happen to have a citation? Also, are you planning on replying to my earlier post in this thread, or will it simply stand as silent testimony to your inability to respond? I stand corrected. It was that the states had the right to ban it. There was once this common law which would be the closest to at least a federal restriction at one time.
quote: The federal government should allow the states to ban it. That's the way it was before Roe Wade. That's my position. I've been too busy to respond much. I'll do what I can when I can. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
ringo writes: Buzsaw writes:
The problem of exemptions is that they undermine your whole idea of "personhood". Is the fetus that was conceived out of rape less of a person? The place to start is with those of mutual consent. The legality of exemption for others could be on a case by case basis. I wasn't referring to my druthers. If I had my druthers, the only exemptions would be if the physical life of the mother was in danger. My point was that if other exemptions are unavoidable, they should be on a case by case basis. Better to start somewhere than the way it is now. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
RAZD writes: Hi Buz,
This thread appears to be quite appropriate for those who wish to address the abortion issues so as not to derail other threads. Indeed. From Message 67 of the Politcal Compass thread:
In most cases nobody is force into having sex. ... Nor is anyone really saying that you can't have sex between consenting adults. We all know the responsibilities involving having sex, but too many want to be absolved from them by killing the life which their irresponsibility has brought to be.
RAZD writes: The impetus of the creation of a new live person d into pregnancy lies with the parents of the baby. These would be the people intentionally trying to conceive, rather than anyone having sex because, gosh, it feels good,........
Parent; Online Dictionary:
quote: The father and the mother are the one's doing the sex thing; the primary function being propagating the species.
RAZD writes: The passing of a person from inside the womb to outside of the womb is irrelevant to the existence of the person. So then what is relevant to the existence of a person: more explicitly what IS a person? A person is every human being, all of whom originate (become a human being) in the womb, the life beginning in the womb, being part and parcel of the mother and father of him/her.
Abortion is the execution of a real life person. RAZD writes: and then we can decide whether all instances of abortion involve death of a person, some instances of abortion involve death of a person, or no instances of abortion involve death of a person. Before we engage in emotional loading of the language, let's define what person is, LOL, RAZD. Defining the term person is another ongoing debate topic between ideological counterparts. It's been ongoing for decades. Not all philosophers and scientists agree. Since we all became life and originated in the womb, imo, it's silly to argue about when we became a person. We all had the need to take on nourishment and whatever is needful to progress from conception to full maturity and beyond. That the 1st stages of our person hood took nutrients from the mother in the womb to progress and develop for exiting the womb has no more to do with life and person hood than when the baby (naturally) sucks the nutrients from the exterior breast of the mother and breaths the oxygen, from the atmosphere itself, etc. Why should ingesting nutrients from an inner tube from the mother make the baby any less a person than sucking the nutrients from the exterior breast of the mother? It is not totally known as to the psyche, the hearing and the emotions of infants in the womb. Perhaps the baby has more senses than we understand. Perhaps an eternal soul and some, including some scientists believe? Abortion is just the beginning of end of freedom to live and to persue happiness. It goes from there to euthanasia to extermination as was the case in secularist totalitarian nations in Europe last century when over a hundred million lives were terminated by their own secularist governments. Edited by Buzsaw, : Fix quotes. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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RAZD writes: Good point. We also have the case for abandoning babies, as the mother of Moses did, so that she did not have to deal with the consequences of her behavior. It's a strawman point. This thread is not about abandonment (which was not the intent of the mother who counted on the bathing princess's compassion) or killing a teenager (Abraham knowing the prophecy of Jehovah concerning Isaac's preservation), the two strawmen Briterican cited. It's about the legality of pre-birth abortion. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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